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I think the i-VTM4 is a better AWD than the Subaru's. Although both are top notch. I second the concerns over the CVT. That all being said, most of my family own Subarus and they will never buy anything else. Pick whichever you like the best to drive, you won't be disappointed (unless the CVT fails).
 
I've owned a few Outbacks and as far as off-road, they are similar to the Passport. They have a little bit better ground clearance but the CVT transmission makes it struggle in low gear situations. Really, you need to define what you want to do off-road. I've owned Jeeps and Subarus and now the Passport. There are really two types of "off-road" vehicles. Those that are unibody, AWD and lack a transfer case (light off-roading) and those that have a cab on frame, transfer case, 4WD setup (Jeeps, 4Runners, Pickups, etc.). The light off-roaders are fine on maintained forest service roads and can get you to hiking trailheads, camping etc. But if you really want to get out in the wilderness and explore rough, unmaintained roads you should look at a Wrangler or 4Runner. A lifted PP still will have traction issues and could leave you stranded. They just aren't designed for it. My last car before my PPTS was a 4-door Wrangler and they are absolutely different vehicles. Every step that makes a vehicle better off-road makes it worse on-road and vice versa. I had my Jeep for 4 years before the terrible steering, body roll through corners, terrible gas mileage and loud highway noise finally made me throw in the towel. 95% of my vehicle use was paved roads, I can handle the other 5% off-road use with my PPTS.
First time I took the Passport off road I got stuck. I'd like to blame it on the stock tires but IVT4 dug a hole in a few seconds, it tries too hard. Luckily I had the hitch installed and a Jeep pulled me out.
 
What mode were you in? Just curious.
Is it called Mud mode? Wasn't snow or sand. And I've owned a few 4x4's, AWD's Outback and Ascent besides the PP. Drove on dirt a lot before I ever drove on roads much. And yea I was pushing it. Had literally had the PP a week. Someplace close before I am hundreds of miles from home. So I know the limit, and it ain't much!
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
How much off road capability do you need, like lockers or a low range? Do you watch those Driving Sports TV Youtube videos. They take some serious trails so you will see how all your candidates faire. As mentioned earlier 4 Runner would be a good choice if you are a serious off roader. 4 Runners are bullet proof but mpg's and on road would be inferior to the Hondas. I think the Passport has more ground clearance than the Pilot.
We are looking for a off road oriented daily driver. 5% off-road with 95% daily rides. The off road is mostly get through rocky gravel roads to trailheads and camp spots.
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
I've owned a few Outbacks and as far as off-road, they are similar to the Passport. They have a little bit better ground clearance but the CVT transmission makes it struggle in low gear situations. Really, you need to define what you want to do off-road. I've owned Jeeps and Subarus and now the Passport. There are really two types of "off-road" vehicles. Those that are unibody, AWD and lack a transfer case (light off-roading) and those that have a cab on frame, transfer case, 4WD setup (Jeeps, 4Runners, Pickups, etc.). The light off-roaders are fine on maintained forest service roads and can get you to hiking trailheads, camping etc. But if you really want to get out in the wilderness and explore rough, unmaintained roads you should look at a Wrangler or 4Runner. A lifted PP still will have traction issues and could leave you stranded. They just aren't designed for it. My last car before my PPTS was a 4-door Wrangler and they are absolutely different vehicles. Every step that makes a vehicle better off-road makes it worse on-road and vice versa. I had my Jeep for 4 years before the terrible steering, body roll through corners, terrible gas mileage and loud highway noise finally made me throw in the towel. 95% of my vehicle use was paved roads, I can handle the other 5% off-road use with my PPTS.
We are mostly looking for a off road oriented daily driver to help us get to 5% off road situations. These will be rocky/gravel dirt roads to get to trailheads or camp spots. Rest of the 95% is going to be regular driving on paved roads.
 
I think the i-VTM4 is a better AWD than the Subaru's. Although both are top notch. I second the concerns over the CVT. That all being said, most of my family own Subarus and they will never buy anything else. Pick whichever you like the best to drive, you won't be disappointed (unless the CVT fails).
Actually no, iVTM4 is more suited for on road driving with some light offroading. Outback has traditional open rear diff that can take way more abuse than the clutch based system on the Passport. iVTM4 is very fun to drive on road but for offroad, you can't beat the reliability of an open diff and being able to transfer torque with brake based torque vectoring.
 
Knowing what you have told us, if you were my son, (I'm guessing you're young enough to be) I would advise you to start looking for a Pilot. Buy the one that fits your budget, put a decent set of tires on it that can handle light off road trails, and don't worry about lift kits, skid plates or any other "off road" kits. After you find one & get it on the road, don't look back & don't second guess yourself.
 
I'm in agreement with several others; if you want off road prowess - then Not Honda.
If you want room and versatility then Pilot, or even more shocking - an Odyssey.

As those kids grow up you'll appreciate the Odyssey roominess/ versatility even more.

If it's gonna be another long term auto then Choose Wisely.
 
Highly subjective Q.… like asking friends who you should marry, or which child you should love more ;-) But with that said. We own both Outback, and Passport, and Pilots. It really comes down to personal taste and our home is divided. Both are fantastic reliable cars in our experience… and have owned both product lines since the late 1990s. We keep cars for +10 years, and in our experience the Hondas have enjoyed a lower cost of maintenance over its lifecycle, for replacement of traditional wear and tear parts, and all the scheduled maintenance than the Subarus. Also, in our experience the interiors of the Passport and Pilot have held up better than the outback… can’t explain why as all cars are regularly used by kids/teens for skiing/climbing/camping… and regular day to day use. The Subaru dash and silver dash panels have cracked/ pealed - silver dash paint wears through on high contact points/buttons over years of use and cold/hot exposure while skiing/camping/climbing, and drivers seat would tear at the stitching….kind of annoying considering all drivers are lightweights 120lbs-180lbs.. ( interior wear is what typically signals it’s time to trade In the outback for us ( not mechanical issues). But the Honda leather and plastics just keep on looking virtually new ( with proper care). Also, AWD systems are comparable for use in the PNW- tires have a big impact on traction (keep this in mind). If interior storage is a priority, the Hondas are bigger. If a smaller car you can more easily park in tighter city underground garages is important and just through a box for additional storage if a priority, the subí is a nice choice ( feels like it has a tighter turning radius… convenient for backing up and garage parking) not to say the Honda is harder to park, but my daughters say they prefer driving the subí when they plan to park downtown.

just some thoughts… hope they help.
 
I personally wouldn't buy used anything at these kinds of prices unless I knew who drove it (like a friend's or family member's car etc) but to each his own. I don't think you'll save much anyway because they hold value. The passport is an excellent SUV and frankly I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything better coming from Subaru. At MSRP even a brand new Passport is a solid value for what you can get options-wise and the build quality/materials are top notch. Now if money is no object and we don't care about reliability then an F-Pace is a beautiful SUV but that's a hell of a payment. I went as far as a Defender 90 at $1080 per month. Too much money for me at this point in time, I still have child support payments... but only for four more months. Now that makes me smile. :)
 
OP, if you're looking at Subarus and Passports, it would behoove you to also include the Mazda CX-50 in your search. The CX-70 (brand new) and the CX-90 (3-rows) are also legit. I've owned a few Mazdas over the years and loved 'em. Just food for thought.

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OP, if you're looking at Subarus and Passports, it would behoove you to also include the Mazda CX-50 in your search. The CX-70 (brand new) and the CX-90 (3-rows) are also legit. I've owned a few Mazdas over the years and loved 'em. Just food for thought.

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I've had a 2010 Mazda CX7 D.I.S.I. turbo 2.4 since new, it's now my youngest son's car. 135 K miles and very little trouble from it. Mazda is definitely one to consider as well.
 
OP, if you're looking at Subarus and Passports, it would behoove you to also include the Mazda CX-50 in your search. The CX-70 (brand new) and the CX-90 (3-rows) are also legit. I've owned a few Mazdas over the years and loved 'em. Just food for thought.

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You missed the spot where the OP compared some '19 models. Likely on a certain budget there.
A CX-90 (pretty new iteration) puts him in an entirely different category. Close to luxury SUV level.
Mazda started the 50 in '23. The price of the comparable-to-Passport build prices it similarly.
At least Mazda refrains from a CVT, but getting to PP horsepower means turbo-charging. And premium fuel.
They build very capable vehicles, up & down their lineup.
I personally prefer my Passport's ride, space, and V6 over a CX-5 or 50. YMMV :cool:
 
You missed the spot where the OP compared some '19 models. Likely on a certain budget there.
A CX-90 (pretty new iteration) puts him in an entirely different category. Close to luxury SUV level.
Mazda started the 50 in '23. The price of the comparable-to-Passport build prices it similarly.
At least Mazda refrains from a CVT, but getting to PP horsepower means turbo-charging. And premium fuel.
They build very capable vehicles, up & down their lineup.
I personally prefer my Passport's ride, space, and V6 over a CX-5 or 50. YMMV :cool:
A co-worker of mine leased a cx-5 a few years ago. He took a few of us for a ride in it and wow did that engine feel like a dog, or maybe we're just all fat asses, lol. Then about a year later the motor blew on it. I don't know what the dealership did for him there, either replaced the engine or got him to jump into a new lease. Not a big Mazda fan here, they have no premium brand. My ex mother-in-law loved them to death, for me they have more of a wrap around feel for the driver, which I personally don't like. Being just over 6ft I like more of an open feel and I get the sense Mazda interiors might be a better fit for the avg-to shorter driver.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/mazda/cx-5/photos-interior
 
You missed the spot where the OP compared some '19 models. Likely on a certain budget there.
A CX-90 (pretty new iteration) puts him in an entirely different category. Close to luxury SUV level.
Mazda started the 50 in '23. The price of the comparable-to-Passport build prices it similarly.
At least Mazda refrains from a CVT, but getting to PP horsepower means turbo-charging. And premium fuel.
They build very capable vehicles, up & down their lineup.
I personally prefer my Passport's ride, space, and V6 over a CX-5 or 50. YMMV :cool:
I've been following the thread and was referring to a CPO CX-50. It's well within reach of what the OP has been quoting. Example. The CX-70 and CX-90 were mentioned for reference; Mazda builds a quality car. TBH I'm not a fan of Subaru, so I'm offering an alternative. IMO Honda trumps both anyway.

As stated in my first post, I would recommend a Pilot for the OP. It sounds like they are going to need that 3rd row at some point.
 
This is my first post in quite some time, but I still get email updates and this topic caught my eye. I have no experience with an Outback but I came from a Pilot and have had a Passport since it was first released.

I loved my Pilot and the 3rd row absolutely came in handy when our son was younger. There were lots of times we would haul him and his friends around town, and it was nice that we were able to take the whole group of kids in one car. Loud, but nice. 😀 Once our son got older, the days of hauling kids around were pretty much over, so we no longer "needed" that 3rd row. When it came time to buy a new car I too decided between the Pilot and the Passport. The Passport was a bit more sporty, like you mentioned, which I liked. And the cargo area was PLENTY big. Also, the Passport was about the same length as my old Pilot, while the new Pilot had grown even longer (which I did NOT like). And finally, the 3rd row was no longer as important to us. So... we went with the Passport.

For you, I really think it comes down to that 3rd row. If you think you'll soon want to have more than 5 people total in the car, on a somewhat regular basis, the Pilot is clearly the way to go. If you think it will easily be several years before you'll want or need to do that, maybe hold off, save some money and buy the Passport. It's a great car.
 
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