[HarveyW]

FWIW I was working for Subaru during this time period and sales for the Outback and Forester were booming, not only that but demand was so high for something bigger that they came out with the Ascent. I remember having a lot of people trade in Pilots and Crosstours as well. But like @Pass/Denv said earlier in the thread, the Outback simply does not compare to the Outback and I after having a half dozen Outbacks in my possession over the past 18 years (to include a 2017, two 2018s, and a 2021) have to wholeheartedly agree. I have completely lost interest in getting another Subaru after 4 months of Passport ownership though I still love the 2021 Outback for a multitude of reasons (Eyesight Safety System in particular).

If the Outback does not compare to the Outback, then what does the Outback compare to? 😁

 

[Tadakatsu]

If the Outback does not compare to the Outback, then what does the Outback compare to? 😁

Thank you, I went back and edited my post. More coffee is required

🤪

 

[14v6]

FWIW I was working for Subaru during this time period and sales for the Outback and Forester were booming, not only that but demand was so high for something bigger that they came out with the Ascent. I remember having a lot of people trade in Pilots and Crosstours as well. But like @Pass/Denv said earlier in the thread, the Outback simply does not compare to the Outback Passport and I after having a half dozen Outbacks in my possession over the past 18 years (to include a 2017, two 2018s, and a 2021) have to wholeheartedly agree. I have completely lost interest in getting another Subaru after 4 months of Passport ownership though I still love the 2021 Outback for a multitude of reasons (Eyesight Safety System in particular).

POST EDITED

Yeah, Honda pitched it as going after the adventure crowd which I don't buy considering how all you hear is how the Ridgeline is an on pavement vehicle despite the fact that they have identical powertrains. So many Subies here and repeat buyers, loyal followers. I think everyone is sold on the standard AWD but I hear nightmare stories about the engine and how hard the opposed 4 banger is to work on. This could just be folklore (until doing research on the current state of affairs) and tough for a brand to shake it's labels, kind of like how VCM has been for Honda. My V6 Accord (VCM equipped just turned over 85k, never used oil.

 

[HarveyW]

Thank you, I went back and edited my post. More coffee is required

🤪

 

[Tadakatsu]

Yeah, Honda pitched it as going after the adventure crowd which I don't buy considering how all you hear is how the Ridgeline is an on pavement vehicle despite the fact that they have identical powertrains. So many Subies here and repeat buyers, loyal followers. I think everyone is sold on the standard AWD but I hear nightmare stories about the engine and how hard the opposed 4 banger is to work on. This could just be folklore (until doing research on the current state of affairs) and tough for a brand to shake it's labels, kind of like how VCM has been for Honda. My V6 Accord (VCM equipped just turned over 85k, never used oil.

Subaru's infamous head gasket issues are mainly a thing of the past that were mostly due to the head gasket material being insufficient, once better quality materials were sourced and used the problems went away except for those people who poorly maintained their engines. The Subaru engines are not particularly difficult to work on, the one thing they are known for is an incredible difficulty in changing the spark plugs without removing the block from the engine bay. The number one most contentious issue is with the CVT, it is normally terrific in everyday road driving but can be an absolute pain to work with in light offroad situations which of course Subaru markets at least half their vehicles as being suitable for. Also if a Subaru CVT breaks down the entire assembly must be replaced and that is usually several thousands of dollars. Aside from that Subaru has developed a reputation for putting pretty terrible batteries in their vehicles from the factory and their windshields are know to crack very easily, which can severely impede the usage of the Eyesight Safety System among other things and those specially made windshields are not cheap (I know because I had to replace one on one of my 2018 Outbacks).

Enough about Subaru though, the Passport definitely has a sporty vibe too it and I have had so many people comment on that whether it be Honda shoppers or people who see my PP Elite. How exactly that is perceived is in the eye of the beholder but suffice it to say that I have been thoroughly impressed by many of the YouTube videos I have seen of people testing the PP's capability offroad. It's a pretty good all around package for many people and certainly met all my criteria and has even surprised me at times with things that I've come to like that I never even would have considered beforehand. Despite the heft of the vehicle, compared to my Outbacks, it handles substantially better and the driving dynamics are far more stable and confidence inspiring in everyday driving situations. Subarus tend to feel very floaty on road but have an incredibly tight turning radius, I appreciate the PP's stiffer composure while sacrificing by accepting wider turning.

 

[Pass/Denv]

I've been a reader of Car and Driver over the years and I think they do a pretty good job of reviewing vehicles. I don't really think have any favor for any particular manufacturer. They did a 40,000 mile test drive on a 2019 Passport and spoke quite highly of it. Especially the reliability of it after 40,000 miles. It's a good read in the Nov. 2020 issue.
They rate the Passport as the number one midsize 2 row crossover/Suv and the number 6 midsize crossover in the entire field (excluding luxury brands) The five ahead of the Passport are the Telluride, Palisade, Grand Cherokee L, CX-9 and the Kia Sorento. In the acceleration performance catagory, the Passport smoked all the midsize crossover/Suv's except the Explorer with 0-60 runs of 5.7 - 5.8 seconds. That is pretty quick for a big old clunky box.

 

[carpayments4life]

I've been a reader of Car and Driver over the years and I think they do a pretty good job of reviewing vehicles. I don't really think have any favor for any particular manufacturer. They did a 40,000 mile test drive on a 2019 Passport and spoke quite highly of it. Especially the reliability of it after 40,000 miles. It's a good read in the Nov. 2020 issue.
They rate the Passport as the number one midsize 2 row crossover/Suv and the number 6 midsize crossover in the entire field (excluding luxury brands) The five ahead of the Passport are the Telluride, Palisade, Grand Cherokee L, CX-9 and the Kia Sorento. In the acceleration performance catagory, the Passport smoked all the midsize crossover/Suv's except the Explorer with 0-60 runs of 5.7 - 5.8 seconds. That is pretty quick for a big old clunky box.

I'd hate to be the owner of a Madza CX9:

1. Telluride $32,790 sold in last 2 years 133,733
2. Palisade $33,150 sold in last 2 years 110,641
3. Grand Cherokee L $48,035 all Grand Cherokee last 2 year sales 452,755
4. Mazda CX-9 $34,160 54,499
5. Sorento $29,390 sold in last 2 years 170,628
6. Passport $32,790 sold in last 2 years 75,652

 

[Pass/Denv]

9

I'd hate to be the owner of a Madza CX9:

1. Telluride $32,790 sold in last 2 years 133,733
2. Palisade $33,150 sold in last 2 years 110,641
3. Grand Cherokee L $48,035 all Grand Cherokee last 2 year sales 452,755
4. Mazda CX-9 $34,160 54,499
5. Sorento $29,390 sold in last 2 years 170,628
6. Passport $32,790 sold in last 2 years 75,652

Why ??? Why do you put so much weight on how many units are sold?
If I personally had a need for a 3 row mainstream midsize Crossover/SUV, It would be a CX-9.
Have you driven and evaluated one? Mazda's driving dynamics, interior materials quality as well as fit and finish rival some of the midsize luxury cross overs. About on par or better than than Acura. The compact CX-5 although a bit smaller than the compact Honda CR-V or Rav 4 is considerably superior to both but sells far fewer units.
Why are you posting starting at MSRP prices? Nobody buys the basic unit. The average price of a vehicle sold today is $38,000.00 and rising.

 

[SF Biotech]

FWIW I was working for Subaru during this time period and sales for the Outback and Forester were booming, not only that but demand was so high for something bigger that they came out with the Ascent. I remember having a lot of people trade in Pilots and Crosstours as well. But like @Pass/Denv said earlier in the thread, the Outback simply does not compare to the Outback Passport and I after having a half dozen Outbacks in my possession over the past 18 years (to include a 2017, two 2018s, and a 2021) have to wholeheartedly agree. I have completely lost interest in getting another Subaru after 4 months of Passport ownership though I still love the 2021 Outback for a multitude of reasons (Eyesight Safety System in particular).

POST EDITED

Good to know that. What is your opinion on drivability of the latest Subaru Outback Wilderness v/s Honda Passport? I drove my friend's Wilderness last week and it was freaking awesome But I love Honda Passport height and room and V6.

 

[Tadakatsu]

Good to know that. What is your opinion on drivability of the latest Subaru Outback Wilderness v/s Honda Passport? I drove my friend's Wilderness last week and it was freaking awesome But I love Honda Passport height and room and V6.

My former employer, a Subaru dealership affiliated with my current employer Honda dealership, has two Wilderness edition Outbacks right now and I have only checked them out but not actually driven them and I don't think that I will end up doing so. I have driven multiple 2020-21 Outback XT models and thought that the engine felt very underpowered. Mind you that I have an 2021 Outback with the NA 2.5L and find that to be adequate, the turbo 2.4L really just feel like that engine with a small turbo that really does not provide that much extra performance. I think if I lived at higher elevation I would go with the turbo and not consider the NA engine. I was in possession of a 2017 Outback 3.6L as well and I think that is the best engine Subaru has ever produced, also the high torque CVT used with it responded well. The programming for the 2.4L turbo engine with the high torque CVT makes the powertrain act like it is very confused about what it is or supposed to be doing, that is what I found to be most disappointing and frankly steered me away from potentially buying one. I think Subaru absolutely nailed it with their current 2.5L - CVT combo when it comes to on-road driving performance, still though I miss the 3.6L to the point that something like it was what I was wanting to go back to and what weighed heavily on me in my decision to get the Passport.

My personal opinion is that Honda's J35 engine is among the best V-6 engines ever made, it is to Honda what the venerable 350 V-8 is to Chevrolet. Buttery smooth in operation, quiet, and never lacking for power in most everyday situations. I love how it revs and sounds and the track record for this engine's long term reliability is second to none. As far as driving dynamics go the more I drive the PP the more it impresses me. It is incredibly composed and stable on road, even at high speeds and the windy conditions I often drive in. For the size of the vehicle the handling is tight and simply has an excellent feel to it, nothing surprising/unexpected. The ride is slightly less forgiving vs. the Outback but that is the tradeoff for feeling more nailed down versus the floaty ride of the Outback.

 

[Memphis_Rea]

Honda has come out with a new camera in the new 2022 Civic that can see farther and wider. Watch this new camera make it into the new PP in a few years from now. This will solve all the LKAS system issues everyone is having.

 

[Tadakatsu]

Honda has come out with a new camera in the new 2022 Civic that can see farther and wider. Watch this new camera make it into the new PP in a few years from now. This will solve all the LKAS system issues everyone is having.

I talked to my corporate rep from Honda about this, we were both hoping that the ACC and auto braking would be improved with the 2022 Civic but yes it is only improving LKAS which to date I have had zero issues with. In fact I think this is one area in which Honda Sensing is better than Subaru Eyesight. I despise Subaru's lane centering feature

 

[Pass/Denv]

Honda has come out with a new camera in the new 2022 Civic that can see farther and wider. Watch this new camera make it into the new PP in a few years from now. This will solve all the LKAS system issues everyone is having.

Do you know what system Kia and Hyundai uses for LKA? My Kia's and Hyundai's would run straight and true between the lines for a long, long time even through curves before it would make a commotion and tell you to put your hands back on the wheel. I'm not a big LKA user so I don't really know how inferior Honda's is. What are these issues you speak of?

 

[Memphis_Rea]

I talked to my corporate rep from Honda about this, we were both hoping that the ACC and auto braking would be improved with the 2022 Civic but yes it is only improving LKAS which to date I have had zero issues with. In fact I think this is one area in which Honda Sensing is better than Subaru Eyesight. I despise Subaru's lane centering feature

The new camera will help with both ACC and auto braking because it can see farther. They also upgraded the software to make braking more gradual and not as jerkey

 

[SF Biotech]

My former employer, a Subaru dealership affiliated with my current employer Honda dealership, has two Wilderness edition Outbacks right now and I have only checked them out but not actually driven them and I don't think that I will end up doing so. I have driven multiple 2020-21 Outback XT models and thought that the engine felt very underpowered. Mind you that I have an 2021 Outback with the NA 2.5L and find that to be adequate, the turbo 2.4L really just feel like that engine with a small turbo that really does not provide that much extra performance. I think if I lived at higher elevation I would go with the turbo and not consider the NA engine. I was in possession of a 2017 Outback 3.6L as well and I think that is the best engine Subaru has ever produced, also the high torque CVT used with it responded well. The programming for the 2.4L turbo engine with the high torque CVT makes the powertrain act like it is very confused about what it is or supposed to be doing, that is what I found to be most disappointing and frankly steered me away from potentially buying one. I think Subaru absolutely nailed it with their current 2.5L - CVT combo when it comes to on-road driving performance, still though I miss the 3.6L to the point that something like it was what I was wanting to go back to and what weighed heavily on me in my decision to get the Passport.

My personal opinion is that Honda's J35 engine is among the best V-6 engines ever made, it is to Honda what the venerable 350 V-8 is to Chevrolet. Buttery smooth in operation, quiet, and never lacking for power in most everyday situations. I love how it revs and sounds and the track record for this engine's long term reliability is second to none. As far as driving dynamics go the more I drive the PP the more it impresses me. It is incredibly composed and stable on road, even at high speeds and the windy conditions I often drive in. For the size of the vehicle the handling is tight and simply has an excellent feel to it, nothing surprising/unexpected. The ride is slightly less forgiving vs. the Outback but that is the tradeoff for feeling more nailed down versus the floaty ride of the Outback.

You explained it very well, good articulation! Honda V6 is superb. On Subaru, I did not know that the base 2.5 Boxer Engine (non-turbo) was that good, as you stated - that is good to know

 

[Tadakatsu]

The new camera will help with both ACC and auto braking because it can see farther. They also upgraded the software to make braking more gradual and not as jerkey

My big knock on Honda Sensing ACC it is that it cannot be activated until the vehicle is at a speed above 25mph and it automatically deactivates if slown down to 20mph. Subaru's ACC can be activated from a dead stop and the minimum speed it can be set at is 20mph. With my Outbacks that have had ACC I have driven them about 99% of the time in ACC because frankly it works so well and is very convenient.

You explained it very well, good articulation! Honda V6 is superb. On Subaru, I did not know that the base 2.5 Boxer Engine (non-turbo) was that good, as you stated - that is good to know

Everything about the 2.5L - CVT combo functions well but the engine is quite noisy and that is the one thing I don't care for on my 2021 Outback.

 

[SF Biotech]

My former employer, a Subaru dealership affiliated with my current employer Honda dealership, has two Wilderness edition Outbacks right now and I have only checked them out but not actually driven them and I don't think that I will end up doing so. I have driven multiple 2020-21 Outback XT models and thought that the engine felt very underpowered. Mind you that I have an 2021 Outback with the NA 2.5L and find that to be adequate, the turbo 2.4L really just feel like that engine with a small turbo that really does not provide that much extra performance. I think if I lived at higher elevation I would go with the turbo and not consider the NA engine. I was in possession of a 2017 Outback 3.6L as well and I think that is the best engine Subaru has ever produced, also the high torque CVT used with it responded well. The programming for the 2.4L turbo engine with the high torque CVT makes the powertrain act like it is very confused about what it is or supposed to be doing, that is what I found to be most disappointing and frankly steered me away from potentially buying one. I think Subaru absolutely nailed it with their current 2.5L - CVT combo when it comes to on-road driving performance, still though I miss the 3.6L to the point that something like it was what I was wanting to go back to and what weighed heavily on me in my decision to get the Passport.

My personal opinion is that Honda's J35 engine is among the best V-6 engines ever made, it is to Honda what the venerable 350 V-8 is to Chevrolet. Buttery smooth in operation, quiet, and never lacking for power in most everyday situations. I love how it revs and sounds and the track record for this engine's long term reliability is second to none. As far as driving dynamics go the more I drive the PP the more it impresses me. It is incredibly composed and stable on road, even at high speeds and the windy conditions I often drive in. For the size of the vehicle the handling is tight and simply has an excellent feel to it, nothing surprising/unexpected. The ride is slightly less forgiving vs. the Outback but that is the tradeoff for feeling more nailed down versus the floaty ride of the Outback.

For my knowledge, why did Subaru discontinue their past 3.6L and replaced that with the current new 2.4 Turbo? Do you think 2.4 Turbo may have decent predicated reliability?

 

[Memphis_Rea]

My big knock on Honda Sensing ACC it is that it cannot be activated until the vehicle is at a speed above 25mph and it automatically deactivates if slown down to 20mph. Subaru's ACC can be activated from a dead stop and the minimum speed it can be set at is 20mph. With my Outbacks that have had ACC I have driven them about 99% of the time in ACC because frankly it works so well and is very convenient.



Everything about the 2.5L - CVT combo functions well but the engine is quite noisy and that is the one thing I don't care for on my 2021 Outback.

Honda's new Camera that is in the Civic works from a dead stop. They have something new called Traffic Jam Assist.

 

[HarveyW]

Oh goody, another feature for people to complain about, if it doesn't work they way they want it too.

What is traffic jam assistance?

hondaoffice.net

 

[Tadakatsu]

For my knowledge, why did Subaru discontinue their past 3.6L and replaced that with the current new 2.4 Turbo? Do you think 2.4 Turbo may have decent predicated reliability?

CAFE emissions regulations killed Subaru's 3.6L engine.

Honda's new Camera that is in the Civic works from a dead stop. They have something new called Traffic Jam Assist.

You are correct but that feature you are referring to has nothing to do with the ACC, it is only used in conjunction with the LKAS. I have confirmed this with Honda and it was described as such in my training for the 2022 Civic.