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Responding to a couple of previous posts...CAFE standards have ALWAYS been about carbon emissions.
Vehicles like the LX570 and Land Cruiser are still released to market because they apparently sell enough of them to make it worthwhile. And because CAFE stands for Corporate Average Fuel Economy. A company can sell vehicles with very poor fuel economy as long as they sell enough vehicles with good fuel economy to keep the corporate average where it needs to be.
 

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We bought new 2021 Honda Passport because of three reasons: Space, Space and Space with 1-kid family!!! Did not care or want 3-row Pilot.

We evaluated the following competition: BMW X5, Subaru Outback XT, Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot, Jeep Cherokee, Ford Explorer, Mazda CX9 and Honda Passport of course.

Of all the above, Honda Passport seems to have the best space, massively efficient storage, very good looks only to be second to Ford Explorer (in my opinion) and great cosmetics/feel with the Gray Leather/Gray Cloth interior. Although purely from driving standpoint, BMW X5 and Mazda CX9 were the best. But we needed to make decision based on: Engine Reliability/History, Drivability, Price, Safety, Off Road Ability and Space.

I feel Honda Passport has strong Engine Reliability/History with V6, menacing Looks, decent Price, great Safety, average off-road ability and best-in-class Space.

If Honda improves drivability and makes it more like Mazda CX9/BMW X5, then it would be unstoppable flagship that can even surpass CRV!!! That in addition to making All-Wheel Drive common for all trims and improve its off-road ability for future models.

What do you guys think?
I had a 2005 Honda Pilot EX-L with Rear Entertainment System I bought brand new when my kids were 2 and 6.
The car had low miles and I gave it to my daughter who was going to college in VT.

When looking for a new car, I knew I wanted to stay with Honda based on the reliability and low maintenance of the Pilot.
I didn't need third row of seats anymore, my days of travel sports was over, but the CR-V was too small to pack up my kids for college. I thought about the Audi Q5 and BMW X5, but friends who had them told me I would be unhappy with their maintenance requirements compared to Honda.

The Passport was the perfect size for me. I bought a 2020 elite last summer and love it. I got the scarlet red color which is not common and I get a lot of comments on how sporty it looks.
 

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We bought new 2021 Honda Passport because of three reasons: Space, Space and Space with 1-kid family!!! Did not care or want 3-row Pilot.

We evaluated the following competition: BMW X5, Subaru Outback XT, Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot, Jeep Cherokee, Ford Explorer, Mazda CX9 and Honda Passport of course.

Of all the above, Honda Passport seems to have the best space, massively efficient storage, very good looks only to be second to Ford Explorer (in my opinion) and great cosmetics/feel with the Gray Leather/Gray Cloth interior. Although purely from driving standpoint, BMW X5 and Mazda CX9 were the best. But we needed to make decision based on: Engine Reliability/History, Drivability, Price, Safety, Off Road Ability and Space.

I feel Honda Passport has strong Engine Reliability/History with V6, menacing Looks, decent Price, great Safety, average off-road ability and best-in-class Space.

If Honda improves drivability and makes it more like Mazda CX9/BMW X5, then it would be unstoppable flagship that can even surpass CRV!!! That in addition to making All-Wheel Drive common for all trims and improve its off-road ability for future models.

What do you guys think?
Dittoes here. We have owned MB's, MDX's and Pilots all with seven seating and never liked the cramped second row. The Passport is so spacious it's hard to believe it sits on the same frame as the Pilot and MDX. I am 6'1'' and never minded the second row. We bought his and her's 2019.
 

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Daimyo
2021 Honda Passport Elite - Tonbo-Giri⛩️
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Dittoes here. We have owned MB's, MDX's and Pilots all with seven seating and never liked the cramped second row. The Passport is so spacious it's hard to believe it sits on the same frame as the Pilot and MDX. I am 6'1'' and never minded the second row. We bought his and her's 2019.
Funny you mention that, I ride along on a lot of test drives in the back seat of a Passport and find it incredibly comfortable. I usually recline the seat a little and it is very relaxing. I am very used to being in the drivers seat but the back seat ain't half bad, I'm 6'1" and 240 pounds.
 

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I think the Passport will be discontinued, after the 2025 model, due to poor sales. Honda wouldn't have sales issues with the Passport, if the MSRP were between $20,000 (Sport) and $32,000 (Elite). Then people would stop buying Pilots.
 

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Funny you mention that, I ride along on a lot of test drives in the back seat of a Passport and find it incredibly comfortable. I usually recline the seat a little and it is very relaxing. I am very used to being in the drivers seat but the back seat ain't half bad, I'm 6'1" and 240 pounds.
That's one of the reasons I traded in my Ridgeline for the Passport. When it was time to bring my daughter for the college drop off in Boston she preferred the rear room in the 15 CRV or the seating position, it's upright in the Ridgeline. That was the final straw, dealer had been contacting me for months to sell the Ridgeline so it was between the PP and the Highlander. PP value won out. I've got to say though that there is also plenty of room rear seat room in the RAV4.
 

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I think the Passport will be discontinued, after the 2025 model, due to poor sales. Honda wouldn't have sales issues with the Passport, if the MSRP were between $20,000 (Sport) and $32,000 (Elite). Then people would stop buying Pilots.
Why do you characterize the PP as having poor sales? Do you know what their production capacity is relative to sales? Remember, the Passport was pitched to compete with the lifestyle crowd that purchases Outbacks, etc. The Alabama plant has only so much capacity, the Passport and Ridgeline are platform fillers for the Pilot. With the MSRP's you are suggesting, it would undercut the CRV :unsure:. I'm not sure if the PP will carry on though as the hybrids proliferate, 25 mpg won't be competitive and the next CRV is rumored to be bigger. Also if the next gen Pilot looks less van like they could offer a lifted trim package. which IMO would be sufficient to satisfy the current PP buyer. If they dump the V6, there goes the creamy refinement, not interested. Honda produces approximately 40,000 Ridgelines even if there was demand for 100k Alabama couldn't accommodate.
 

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To 14v6:
Data shows poor sales Passport (75,652 over its 2 years) vs. the Pilot (258,821 over same 2 years) vs the Highlander (193,810 over same 2 years) vs Outback (334,468 over same 2 years).
These numbers represent 100's of thousands of sales differences.
wwwDOTcarsalesbaseDOTcom/us-honda-passport/ LINK to Passport Sales Numbers

Compare those sales numbers to those of the now defunct Honda Crosstour. From 2011 thru 2017 it sold a total of 77,279 units. No way Honda could continue to keep those factory door open for business.
wwwDOTcarsalesbaseDOTcom/us-honda-crosstour/ LINK to Crosstour Sales

Regarding production...If there was a demand, Honda would accommodate that demand.

The writing is on the wall for the Passport, so don't think putting a 10 speed tranny in it, or wider armrests will boost sales to compete in the car market.
 

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Daimyo
2021 Honda Passport Elite - Tonbo-Giri⛩️
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Honda produces approximately 40,000 Ridgelines even if there was demand for 100k Alabama couldn't accommodate.
Regarding production...If there was a demand, Honda would accommodate that demand.
@carpayments4life if Honda really was willing to step up to meet demand on the Ridgeline they have done a 💩 job accomplishing anything. Even before the industry slow down in recent months, demand was white hot and dealerships were struggling to have any vehicles inbound from the factory to sell on order let alone simply have vehicles on the lot for customers to come in and check out.

My dealership has only had three Ridgelines available, one on the lot and two on order, over the past 3 months and we just received our first allocation of two more Ridgelines since May this past week. I have sold those three aforementioned Ridgelines and have a waiting list of at least a dozen people with serious interest in purchasing ASAP.
 

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$20K - $32K ??? :LOL: Maybe 15 year ago.
That's the point.
Look at the low price of the Korean Telluride/Palisade's over the same 2 years of sales = 244,374
We'll see those Koreans well after the Passport is forgotten.
Maybe 15 years ago Honda could have sold more than 38,000/yr Passports.
 

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That's the point.
Look at the low price of the Korean Telluride/Palisade's over the same 2 years of sales = 244,374
We'll see those Koreans well after the Passport is forgotten.
Maybe 15 years ago Honda could have sold more than 38,000/yr Passports.
What point? The Telluride/Palisade are not a direct competitor to the Passport
The top trim Telluride/Palisade has a $51K MSRP. The Passport Elite has a $44K MSRP
Honda and Toyota are always purchased at a premium. They have a long standing positive reliability and resale advantage. The Koreans aren't offering that great warranty because they want to. They've years to go to prove themselves to be on the level of Honda and Toyota.
 

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I'm a life long Honda/Acura owner and they've been excellent.
My Passport hasn't been to any shop and probably won't, but that doesn't mean that its sales are any good.
I had my Passport since Oct 2019 and have been watching out for them. I drive in and around a city, about 4 hours a day and in 2 years I've seen 3 Passports on the road.
I believe my Passport Touring AWD was over priced, when I paid $35,600 + tax (no trade-in), but I was attracted to the new sheet metal.
75,652 unit sales in 2 years is 1/3 the sales of the competition and less than 1/4 the sales of the Outback.
We're talking hundreds of thousands behind everyone, right down to the Korean junk.
Low sales = No improvements.
No improvements = Stagnate sales.
Over the next 4 years Honda isn't going to spend money on changes, other than cosmetic.
What could Honda do to the Passport, without spending a ton of money and in turn raising the price, to get sales up? This leads me back to the current price being prohibitive.
 

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I think a big reason for the Passport's lackluster sales is because the Pilot and CRV cannibalize a lot of the potential sales. Many people reason that the Pilot is essentially the same vehicle but a little bigger. You get more for the same or even less money. People who don't want something as large as a Pilot often go for the CRV. So the Passport is kind of a niche player. Not a great number of people value the differences between it and the Pilot. Price is a factor I'm sure, but unless it sold for a lot less I don't think the sales would increase significantly. Assuming the Passport isn't dropped, changes for the better (hopefully) will come after the Pilot is updated. Maybe the new MDX gives a clue. Slightly more power, improved suspension, and 10-speed transmission.
 

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I'm a life long Honda/Acura owner and they've been excellent.
My Passport hasn't been to any shop and probably won't, but that doesn't mean that its sales are any good.
I had my Passport since Oct 2019 and have been watching out for them. I drive in and around a city, about 4 hours a day and in 2 years I've seen 3 Passports on the road.
I believe my Passport Touring AWD was over priced, when I paid $35,600 + tax (no trade-in), but I was attracted to the new sheet metal.
75,652 unit sales in 2 years is 1/3 the sales of the competition and less than 1/4 the sales of the Outback.
We're talking hundreds of thousands behind everyone, right down to the Korean junk.
Low sales = No improvements.
No improvements = Stagnate sales.
Over the next 4 years Honda isn't going to spend money on changes, other than cosmetic.
What could Honda do to the Passport, without spending a ton of money and in turn raising the price, to get sales up? This leads me back to the current price being prohibitive.
So you bought your Passport based on aesthetics and now you're complaining you had to pay $35,600
You bought a very ,very good vehicle for just $35,600. The outback is not near the vehicle a Passport is.
If they make improvements to the Pilot they will flow over to the Passport as well.
Have you Honda inside info. to know they won't make any improvements to the Passport over the next 4 years or just another opinion. Instead of the massive amount of black plastic they cover the Passport with and the Mad Max/Darth Vader look they have going on, maybe they should offer a trim level that is more upscale like the Pilot. I really like both of my new Passports but not for their looks. I know others as well as some you tube reviews that think a more upscale look on the Passport would attract more buyers. Perhaps a "Sport" trim for the all black look and the "Elite" for the upscale look like the Grand Cherokee has. If the Pilot was a two row with with the same suspension and 20" inch wheels as the Passport I would have purchased it.
 

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I don't know...the Darth Vader Look is quite popular. The Grand Cherokee is offered
in 12 different models and 7 of them have little or no chrome including the two most expensive models. But I agree that it would be smart for Honda to offer a chromed up version for those that like that look.
 

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So you bought your Passport based on aesthetics and now you're complaining you had to pay $35,600
You bought a very ,very good vehicle for just $35,600. The outback is not near the vehicle a Passport is.
If they make improvements to the Pilot they will flow over to the Passport as well.
Have you Honda inside info. to know they won't make any improvements to the Passport over the next 4 years or just another opinion. Instead of the massive amount of black plastic they cover the Passport with and the Mad Max/Darth Vader look they have going on, maybe they should offer a trim level that is more upscale like the Pilot. I really like both of my new Passports but not for their looks. I know others as well as some you tube reviews that think a more upscale look on the Passport would attract more buyers. Perhaps a "Sport" trim for the all black look and the "Elite" for the upscale look like the Grand Cherokee has. If the Pilot was a two row with with the same suspension and 20" inch wheels as the Passport I would have purchased it.
I could unload the Passport, in this crazy market and easily break even. Maybe, get a 2019 RDX with the wonderful 10 speed transmission and wider arm rests. So, I really don't have buyers remorse. I'm just noticing that hardly anyone has my poor taste, in cars.

I don't have inside information.
You mention the CR-v. Here's their 717,670 units sold in the past 2 years link: Honda CR-v sales figures are 10 times higher than the Passport
I wonder if there is a vehicle that you can reference, which has worse sales than the Passport, over the past 2 years?
 

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The Passport was created because Honda didn't have a midsize 5 seat SUV known as white sheet space and Honda estimated there were 35k customers leaving the brand. So they came up with a plan to leverage what they had to fill this space.
The Honda plant in Alabama where the PP is produced has about 350k Capacity. Back in 2018 I annualized the actuals and came up with approximations

Approximately 40k Ridgelines Annually
Approximately 160k Pilots Annually
Approximately 112k Odysseys Annually

Honda would have a tough time running at or over capacity to produce 50k Passports

Toyota sells more Highlanders than Pilots 212 vs 123 (2020 actuals) These are comparative products and Honda sells all they can make. Here's an interesting article that was posted on a forum back when the Passport was released which pretty much sums it up.

Edit: 7/25/21 If Honda was worried about mid size 5 seaters, they should be worried about no Passport Hybrid or MDX hybrid. That causing some exits from the brand. This dawned on me when my sister traded in her MDX for one of those Lexus RX hybrids.

 

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I could unload the Passport, in this crazy market and easily break even. Maybe, get a 2019 RDX with the wonderful 10 speed transmission and wider arm rests. So, I really don't have buyers remorse. I'm just noticing that hardly anyone has my poor taste, in cars.

I don't have inside information.
You mention the CR-v. Here's their 717,670 units sold in the past 2 years link: Honda CR-v sales figures are 10 times higher than the Passport
I wonder if there is a vehicle that you can reference, which has worse sales than the Passport, over the past 2 years?
The CR-V is a cheaply priced budget compact and does not compare to the Passport. People buy cheap.
McDonalds sells a cheap low budget hamburger and a whole bunch of them.
Why are you so hung up on the Passport sales numbers? Go get that RDX and rid yourself of your "poor taste, in cars"
 

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Daimyo
2021 Honda Passport Elite - Tonbo-Giri⛩️
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The Passport was created because Honda didn't have a midsize 5 seat SUV known as white sheet space and Honda estimated there were 35k customers leaving the brand. So they came up with a plan to leverage what they had to fill this space.
The Honda plant in Alabama where the PP is produced has about 350k Capacity. Back in 2018 I annualized the actuals and came up with approximations

Approximately 40k Ridgelines Annually
Approximately 160k Pilots Annually
Approximately 112k Odysseys Annually

Honda would have a tough time running at or over capacity to produce 50k Passports

Toyota sells more Highlanders than Pilots 212 vs 123 (2020 actuals) These are comparative products and Honda sells all they can make. Here's an interesting article that was posted on a forum back when the Passport was released which pretty much sums it up.

FWIW I was working for Subaru during this time period and sales for the Outback and Forester were booming, not only that but demand was so high for something bigger that they came out with the Ascent. I remember having a lot of people trade in Pilots and Crosstours as well. But like @Pass/Denv said earlier in the thread, the Outback simply does not compare to the Outback Passport and I after having a half dozen Outbacks in my possession over the past 18 years (to include a 2017, two 2018s, and a 2021) have to wholeheartedly agree. I have completely lost interest in getting another Subaru after 4 months of Passport ownership though I still love the 2021 Outback for a multitude of reasons (Eyesight Safety System in particular).

POST EDITED
 
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