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Hi everyone. This is my first post but I follow often as there seem to be some knowledgeable folks with helpful advice and I'm hoping someone can help resolve the issue of needing a WDH for our 2020 Honda Passport AWD EX-L and our 23' travel trailer. We've never had a camper before so there isn't any prior experience to compare as to whether the handling and driving we've done thus far can be better. We've only traveled 4 times to local campgrounds, but we're wanting to do a long distance trip from our home in Indiana to western South Dakota next month. Of course going that far, over 1,000 miles each way, we want to be as best prepared as possible. I will say the PP sags when hitched and it struggles to get up to 55 mph as it is.

Our Honda's curb weight with full gas tank and fluids topped off, is 4300#. The GVWR listed is 5291.

The TT weight with everything we need (which we keep full time in the camper & no other items or supplies are ever added, unless depleted) is 3700#. That weight was taken from a CAT scale and includes the hitch weight. There's one full propane tank and the battery also on the hitch. The tag on the travel trailer shows GVWR as 4770.

Honda indicates the max total trailer weight as 5000# with the ATF cooler installed, which ours has. The tongue load is listed as 500# in the owner's manual.

The only weights not included in any of the figures mentioned are my husband and myself (390#), 2 dogs (35-40# total), dog food/supplies, our clothes/shoes & toiletries. Guessing weight of all that would be approximately 150#. Adding an additional 580# to the PP for a total of 4880, which I believe still keeps up within safe range of the vehicle's GVWR.

Driving through the Great Plains several times previously, I know the crosswinds can get pretty strong. If I'm understanding correctly, a WDH with sway bars could help minimize trailer sway.

The added cost isn't cheap and we'd be installing it ourselves, but to me the price for safety is worth it, no?
 

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Hi everyone. This is my first post but I follow often as there seem to be some knowledgeable folks with helpful advice and I'm hoping someone can help resolve the issue of needing a WDH for our 2020 Honda Passport AWD EX-L and our 23' travel trailer. We've never had a camper before so there isn't any prior experience to compare as to whether the handling and driving we've done thus far can be better. We've only traveled 4 times to local campgrounds, but we're wanting to do a long distance trip from our home in Indiana to western South Dakota next month. Of course going that far, over 1,000 miles each way, we want to be as best prepared as possible. I will say the PP sags when hitched and it struggles to get up to 55 mph as it is.

Our Honda's curb weight with full gas tank and fluids topped off, is 4300#. The GVWR listed is 5291.

The TT weight with everything we need (which we keep full time in the camper & no other items or supplies are ever added, unless depleted) is 3700#. That weight was taken from a CAT scale and includes the hitch weight. There's one full propane tank and the battery also on the hitch. The tag on the travel trailer shows GVWR as 4770.

Honda indicates the max total trailer weight as 5000# with the ATF cooler installed, which ours has. The tongue load is listed as 500# in the owner's manual.

The only weights not included in any of the figures mentioned are my husband and myself (390#), 2 dogs (35-40# total), dog food/supplies, our clothes/shoes & toiletries. Guessing weight of all that would be approximately 150#. Adding an additional 580# to the PP for a total of 4880, which I believe still keeps up within safe range of the vehicle's GVWR.

Driving through the Great Plains several times previously, I know the crosswinds can get pretty strong. If I'm understanding correctly, a WDH with sway bars could help minimize trailer sway.

The added cost isn't cheap and we'd be installing it ourselves, but to me the price for safety is worth it, no?
Hi everyone. This is my first post but I follow often as there seem to be some knowledgeable folks with helpful advice and I'm hoping someone can help resolve the issue of needing a WDH for our 2020 Honda Passport AWD EX-L and our 23' travel trailer. We've never had a camper before so there isn't any prior experience to compare as to whether the handling and driving we've done thus far can be better. We've only traveled 4 times to local campgrounds, but we're wanting to do a long distance trip from our home in Indiana to western South Dakota next month. Of course going that far, over 1,000 miles each way, we want to be as best prepared as possible. I will say the PP sags when hitched and it struggles to get up to 55 mph as it is.

Our Honda's curb weight with full gas tank and fluids topped off, is 4300#. The GVWR listed is 5291.

The TT weight with everything we need (which we keep full time in the camper & no other items or supplies are ever added, unless depleted) is 3700#. That weight was taken from a CAT scale and includes the hitch weight. There's one full propane tank and the battery also on the hitch. The tag on the travel trailer shows GVWR as 4770.

Honda indicates the max total trailer weight as 5000# with the ATF cooler installed, which ours has. The tongue load is listed as 500# in the owner's manual.

The only weights not included in any of the figures mentioned are my husband and myself (390#), 2 dogs (35-40# total), dog food/supplies, our clothes/shoes & toiletries. Guessing weight of all that would be approximately 150#. Adding an additional 580# to the PP for a total of 4880, which I believe still keeps up within safe range of the vehicle's GVWR.

Driving through the Great Plains several times previously, I know the crosswinds can get pretty strong. If I'm understanding correctly, a WDH with sway bars could help minimize trailer sway.

The added cost isn't cheap and we'd be installing it ourselves, but to me the price for safety is worth it, no?
In this case you are absolutely correct and your husband is absolutely incorrect.
First thing....The Passport should not be sagging when the trailer is hitched. Your entire tow vehicle and trailer should be riding level. Did your trailer dealer not recommend you install WDH and or sway control?
Should you folks swerve to avoid hitting an object or drive in even moderate winds, you may expose yourself to a real scary time and or possibly a serious accident. When a trailer goes into heavy sway it's difficult to pull out of it.
If your Passport is grunting to obtain 55 mph in the flatlands where you live, you're towing too much weight and putting a huge strain on the vehicle.
For your safety and the safety of others do get a quality WDH. If you must install it yourself, do take it to a qualified source that can inspect and approve your installation. It also might be helpful if you spent some time on Youtube for Newbies and trailer towing.
 

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The WDH certainly won't hurt, other than create more weight for your poor Honda to lug around..

I would focus more on getting a smaller trailer or a heavier, more powerful tow rig.
Totally agee with you on that. Some people think the Passport is more than it really is.
At least the WDH would allow them to tow more safely while they're abusing the Passport.
Towing is really meant for body on frame, a bunch of gas ponys and torque or best yet a diesel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
In this case you are absolutely correct and your husband is absolutely incorrect.
First thing....The Passport should not be sagging when the trailer is hitched. Your entire tow vehicle and trailer should be riding level. Did your trailer dealer not recommend you install WDH and or sway control?
Should you folks swerve to avoid hitting an object or drive in even moderate winds, you may expose yourself to a real scary time and or possibly a serious accident. When a trailer goes into heavy sway it's difficult to pull out of it.
If your Passport is grunting to obtain 55 mph in the flatlands where you live, you're towing too much weight and putting a huge strain on the vehicle.
For your safety and the safety of others do get a quality WDH. If you must install it yourself, do take it to a qualified source that can inspect and approve your installation. It also might be helpful if you spent some time on Youtube for Newbies and trailer towing.
In this case you are absolutely correct and your husband is absolutely incorrect.
First thing....The Passport should not be sagging when the trailer is hitched. Your entire tow vehicle and trailer should be riding level. Did your trailer dealer not recommend you install WDH and or sway control?
Should you folks swerve to avoid hitting an object or drive in even moderate winds, you may expose yourself to a real scary time and or possibly a serious accident. When a trailer goes into heavy sway it's difficult to pull out of it.
If your Passport is grunting to obtain 55 mph in the flatlands where you live, you're towing too much weight and putting a huge strain on the vehicle.
For your safety and the safety of others do get a quality WDH. If you must install it yourself, do take it to a qualified source that can inspect and approve your installation. It also might be helpful if you spent some time on Youtube for Newbies and trailer towing.
The dealer asked if we wanted to get a WDH, hubby balked at the added expense, and a couple days later when we picked up the unit, the service technician made him feel like he'd made the right choice when he told him it wasn't necessary. Additionally, we were driving his Tundra Crew cab and maybe that's why the tech said it wasn't needed.

When I said sluggish to get moving, I should say the whole NOT having the weight distributed in the back of my mind, keeps me from applying too much gas and maybe that's where I'm getting the feeling of slow going. Any other time I've got a lead foot haha. I watch the rpm's when it's shifting and it hovers between 2 and 3,000. I'm not technical at all when it comes to engines so I'm not sure if that's fine or I'm just one trip away from blowing a gasket, so any feedback would be appreciated!

One final thing... are the weights I originally listed within a "safe zone" overall or am I asking the PP to take on too much?
 

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My husband has a Tundra. :sneaky:
Nice truck, congrats.
I saw a Tundra pull a triple axle boat over Soldier Summit (Utah) two years ago. This guy was really carrying the mail.
When I caught up to him I was shocked to learn that it wasn't a big bore diesel. He had the 5.7 L.
Now I have mad respect for that truck/engine combo. (390 HP, 10,000 towing capacity.)
Do you know which engine he has in it?

Was curious why you prefer to pull the travel trailer with the "less capable" vehicle of the two?
No question, regardless of the engine, the Tundra would be a much safer choice.

WDH's can wreak havoc on unibody frames.
 
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Nice truck, congrats.
I saw a Tundra pull a triple axle boat over Soldier Summit (Utah) two years ago. This guy was really carrying the mail.
When I caught up to him I was shocked to learn that it wasn't a big bore diesel. He had the 5.7 L.
Now I have mad respect for that truck/engine combo. (390 HP, 10,000 towing capacity.)
Do you know which engine he has in it?

Was curious why you prefer to pull the travel trailer with the "less capable" vehicle of the two?
No question, regardless of the engine, the Tundra would be a much safer choice.

WDH's can wreak havoc on unibody frames.
It's got a 5.7L V8 as well. And it's got 66,000 miles on it. Not much by Toyota standards, but he likes keeping his vehicles much longer. Translation - "why use up mine when we can use up yours."

In doing some reading, I've been seeing some indicate that to get an engine to its "peak power", the vehicle will downshift more often and rev the engine. Towing often isn't recommended but for one or two trips a year, it's not going to kill the PP. I don't intend on redlining it, but I would like to actually use, not abuse, the V6 I paid for. And perhaps that's what I'm feeling at take off when I say it's struggling...in not driving it to its capability, I'm keeping the proverbial horses in the stall when they actually want out.

I'm 48, 2 grown daughters and 3 grandkids. My days in the literal fast lane are sadly come and gone. Gone too is the carefree (more like stupid & stubborn lol) mentality of thinking everything will be ok, until it isn't. Which is why I'm here trying to gain more knowledge and to hear from those with experience. I can read and Google till I'm blue in the face, but it doesn't compare to hearing from those who really know the mechanics of how an engine performs and how it's best utilized.

I know the Tundra and Honda are two completely different animals so I'm not after a comparison. And I know there's a difference between CAN and SHOULD. Thankfully I do have a "more capable" backup vehicle to haul the camper we've already got, but I'd really like to know if the PP can do it. What are all the testing grounds, ratings, SAE, etc good for if one can't truly know a real world situation :unsure:
 

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Longtime TT and WD user chiming in here, you have way too much TT for the PP. Way too much.

Do with that what you will. Here's to good decision making. 🍻
 
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It's got a 5.7L V8 as well. And it's got 66,000 miles on it. Not much by Toyota standards, but he likes keeping his vehicles much longer. Translation - "why use up mine when we can use up yours."

In doing some reading, I've been seeing some indicate that to get an engine to its "peak power", the vehicle will downshift more often and rev the engine. Towing often isn't recommended but for one or two trips a year, it's not going to kill the PP. I don't intend on redlining it, but I would like to actually use, not abuse, the V6 I paid for. And perhaps that's what I'm feeling at take off when I say it's struggling...in not driving it to its capability, I'm keeping the proverbial horses in the stall when they actually want out.

I'm 48, 2 grown daughters and 3 grandkids. My days in the literal fast lane are sadly come and gone. Gone too is the carefree (more like stupid & stubborn lol) mentality of thinking everything will be ok, until it isn't. Which is why I'm here trying to gain more knowledge and to hear from those with experience. I can read and Google till I'm blue in the face, but it doesn't compare to hearing from those who really know the mechanics of how an engine performs and how it's best utilized.

I know the Tundra and Honda are two completely different animals so I'm not after a comparison. And I know there's a difference between CAN and SHOULD. Thankfully I do have a "more capable" backup vehicle to haul the camper we've already got, but I'd really like to know if the PP can do it. What are all the testing grounds, ratings, SAE, etc good for if one can't truly know a real world situation :unsure:
Sorry for the comparison, but......

Pulling that trailer with your Passport, instead of that Tundra is kinda like shoveling 2 inch gravel with a flat shovel instead of a spade shovel . Wrong tool for the job.

Sure, you can do it. The question is why?

You are fortunate enough to have a choice, only you can make it.
You asked the question.
My answer;

I think leaving that Tundra in the garage while you pull that trailer with your HP is simply crazy.

Camping is supposed to be fun. Struggling to get off the line and flooring it to get to 55 mph does not sound like fun at all. Heaven forbid you are headed for the mountains.

I'm done. Good luck.
 
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Hi everyone. This is my first post but I follow often as there seem to be some knowledgeable folks with helpful advice and I'm hoping someone can help resolve the issue of needing a WDH for our 2020 Honda Passport AWD EX-L and our 23' travel trailer. We've never had a camper before so there isn't any prior experience to compare as to whether the handling and driving we've done thus far can be better. We've only traveled 4 times to local campgrounds, but we're wanting to do a long distance trip from our home in Indiana to western South Dakota next month. Of course going that far, over 1,000 miles each way, we want to be as best prepared as possible. I will say the PP sags when hitched and it struggles to get up to 55 mph as it is.

Our Honda's curb weight with full gas tank and fluids topped off, is 4300#. The GVWR listed is 5291.

The TT weight with everything we need (which we keep full time in the camper & no other items or supplies are ever added, unless depleted) is 3700#. That weight was taken from a CAT scale and includes the hitch weight. There's one full propane tank and the battery also on the hitch. The tag on the travel trailer shows GVWR as 4770.

Honda indicates the max total trailer weight as 5000# with the ATF cooler installed, which ours has. The tongue load is listed as 500# in the owner's manual.

The only weights not included in any of the figures mentioned are my husband and myself (390#), 2 dogs (35-40# total), dog food/supplies, our clothes/shoes & toiletries. Guessing weight of all that would be approximately 150#. Adding an additional 580# to the PP for a total of 4880, which I believe still keeps up within safe range of the vehicle's GVWR.

Driving through the Great Plains several times previously, I know the crosswinds can get pretty strong. If I'm understanding correctly, a WDH with sway bars could help minimize trailer sway.

The added cost isn't cheap and we'd be installing it ourselves, but to me the price for safety is worth it, no?
A few things to consider with your situation. While the Passport is rated to pull 5K, people who regularly tow try to keep the total weight to 80% of the rated tow weight, 85% at the max. That would put the ideal max tow weight at 4000-4250 lbs. 4K would be the best.

A WDH doesn't actually, as often claimed, distribute the weight over the entire frame of the trailer. A WDH is a separate hitch employing a set of bars, springs and chains that mechanical shift the force of the weight back onto the axels. By doing this it is putting more strain on the axel(s) of the trailer, usually resulting in premature bearing wear on the trailer axel. If it is a twin axel trailer it is the back axel that will usually wear faster that the froward axel.

The only way to actually redistribute the weight and not shift it to the axel is to actually redistribute the weight physically. This can be, with North American trailers, hard to do at times. When buying and even manufacturing a trailer not enough attention is paid to the design for towing, over the design/convenience of being at the destination. The problem comes from the 2/3-1/3 trailer design. Approximately 2/3rds of the trailer is forward of the trailer axel(s). Depending on the layout is makes is hard if not impossible to actually load the thing in a balanced manner.

2/3-1/3 North American Trailer
12156


Trailers in the EU and in many other countries are much closer to 50-50 design with the axel(s) closer to the center of the trailer. Much easier to balance a load in the trailer with a 50/50 setup.

50/50 EU Trailer
12155


Personally I never use a WDH, but then I pull a multitude of various trailers, some mine, some others. I always use a sway control bar on any box type trailer. Instead I use a weight safe hitch that allows me to balance the load on the tongue when loading.

Personally with what you have described, WDH or Not, you are using the wrong vehicle to haul your trailer if you choose the Passport. The Tundra, with close to 2X if not exceeding the Passports 5K tow rating, should be the vehicle that you are using to tow.

Frankly you can never have too much vehicle to tow with, but you can easily have too little.
 

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Um.... no.

A Weight Distributing Hitch affects the tow vehicle - not the trailer.

It tries to center the weight of the item being towed to toward the center of the tow vehicle, and off the rear axle. That way, you're not going down the road with the front tires barely touching the pavement and your headlights illuminating the sky.

Centering the weight of a trailer is dependent upon how well the trailer was manufactured, or loaded.
 

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"A weight distribution hitch is a system designed to create a level, stable ride when you tow a trailer. Basically, a weight distribution hitch will help keep your towing setup level and make sure the weight of your trailer doesn't cause undue stress on your vehicle."

"Weight distribution systems use spring bars to help combat these issues. Spring bars apply leverage to either side of your setup, which transfers the load at the rear of the vehicle to all axles on your tow vehicle and trailer. This even distribution of weight results in a smooth, level ride, as well as the ability to tow at the maximum capacity of your hitch."

.

Since the weight is the trailer the only way to "transfer" the weight of the forward heavy trailer is to shift the downward force of the trailer tongue back onto the trailer axels. When the force on the trailer tongue is shifted back onto the trailer axel(s) it lightens the tongue weight, thereby decreasing the weight on the rear of the tow vehicle. In doing so it "balances" the vehicle weight on its front and real axel as if there was little to no downward force on the receiver ball.

12157
 

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A few things to consider with your situation. While the Passport is rated to pull 5K, people who regularly tow try to keep the total weight to 80% of the rated tow weight, 85% at the max. That would put the ideal max tow weight at 4000-4250 lbs. 4K would be the best.
All true and essentially all the OP needs to know outside of the wheelbase of the PP is also not sufficient for a '23 TT that is more than likely '26+ bumper to hitch.

I hope they heed the nay feedback they're receiving here. They asked and are receiving facts.
 

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A few things to consider with your situation. While the Passport is rated to pull 5K, people who regularly tow try to keep the total weight to 80% of the rated tow weight, 85% at the max. That would put the ideal max tow weight at 4000-4250 lbs. 4K would be the best.

A WDH doesn't actually, as often claimed, distribute the weight over the entire frame of the trailer. A WDH is a separate hitch employing a set of bars, springs and chains that mechanical shift the force of the weight back onto the axels. By doing this it is putting more strain on the axel(s) of the trailer, usually resulting in premature bearing wear on the trailer axel. If it is a twin axel trailer it is the back axel that will usually wear faster that the froward axel.

The only way to actually redistribute the weight and not shift it to the axel is to actually redistribute the weight physically. This can be, with North American trailers, hard to do at times. When buying and even manufacturing a trailer not enough attention is paid to the design for towing, over the design/convenience of being at the destination. The problem comes from the 2/3-1/3 trailer design. Approximately 2/3rds of the trailer is forward of the trailer axel(s). Depending on the layout is makes is hard if not impossible to actually load the thing in a balanced manner.

2/3-1/3 North American Trailer
View attachment 12156

Trailers in the EU and in many other countries are much closer to 50-50 design with the axel(s) closer to the center of the trailer. Much easier to balance a load in the trailer with a 50/50 setup.

50/50 EU Trailer
View attachment 12155

Personally I never use a WDH, but then I pull a multitude of various trailers, some mine, some others. I always use a sway control bar on any box type trailer. Instead I use a weight safe hitch that allows me to balance the load on the tongue when loading.

Personally with what you have described, WDH or Not, you are using the wrong vehicle to haul your trailer if you choose the Passport. The Tundra, with close to 2X if not exceeding the Passports 5K tow rating, should be the vehicle that you are using to tow.

Frankly you can never have too much vehicle to tow with, but you can easily have too little.
A 4000 -4250 lb tow and a Passport loaded with cargo and people is way, way too much for any Honda if you're towing in the mountains. Especially the Rocky Mountains. No matter what Honda says it can tow. That 5000 lb towing capacity is meant for the flatlands. To tow comfortably, safely and enjoy your drive (without white knuckles) take your towing capacity and cut it in half. Going up the mountain is much easier than going down.
 

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All true and essentially all the OP needs to know outside of the wheelbase of the PP is also not sufficient for a '23 TT that is more than likely '26+ bumper to hitch.

I hope they heed the nay feedback they're receiving here. They asked and are receiving facts.
I agree that the best bet is to pull with the Tundra. I would if it was me, but a search will show that there are several people on this forum, as well as the Pilot and Ridgeline forums that have pulled quite successfully the kind of weight the OP is estimating.

I would definitely be using the paddle shifters and keeping my max gear below 8th or 9th gear, probably below 7th gear while towing. I would also be using 91 octane fuel when towing to mitigate preignition.

It's the transmission that I would worry most about in this case. The higher load of the trailer will cause higher transmission temps. Being able to monitor the transmission temps would be good in this case.

If the OP chooses to pull with the Passport they need to be cognizant of this and make sure that they follow the the heavy duty recommendation regarding more frequent transmission and differential fluid changes. Same goes for oil changes as well.
 

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Hi everyone. This is my first post but I follow often as there seem to be some knowledgeable folks with helpful advice and I'm hoping someone can help resolve the issue of needing a WDH for our 2020 Honda Passport AWD EX-L and our 23' travel trailer. We've never had a camper before so there isn't any prior experience to compare as to whether the handling and driving we've done thus far can be better. We've only traveled 4 times to local campgrounds, but we're wanting to do a long distance trip from our home in Indiana to western South Dakota next month. Of course going that far, over 1,000 miles each way, we want to be as best prepared as possible. I will say the PP sags when hitched and it struggles to get up to 55 mph as it is.

Our Honda's curb weight with full gas tank and fluids topped off, is 4300#. The GVWR listed is 5291.

The TT weight with everything we need (which we keep full time in the camper & no other items or supplies are ever added, unless depleted) is 3700#. That weight was taken from a CAT scale and includes the hitch weight. There's one full propane tank and the battery also on the hitch. The tag on the travel trailer shows GVWR as 4770.

Honda indicates the max total trailer weight as 5000# with the ATF cooler installed, which ours has. The tongue load is listed as 500# in the owner's manual.

The only weights not included in any of the figures mentioned are my husband and myself (390#), 2 dogs (35-40# total), dog food/supplies, our clothes/shoes & toiletries. Guessing weight of all that would be approximately 150#. Adding an additional 580# to the PP for a total of 4880, which I believe still keeps up within safe range of the vehicle's GVWR.

Driving through the Great Plains several times previously, I know the crosswinds can get pretty strong. If I'm understanding correctly, a WDH with sway bars could help minimize trailer sway.

The added cost isn't cheap and we'd be installing it ourselves, but to me the price for safety is worth it, no?

I have towed for over 40 years & currently tow a 4500# pound trailer with my PP. Don't let the "real truck" people tell you you can't tow with it, it tows very well. And as (with AWD & Trans Cooler) it's rated to tow 5000 pounds, you can tow 5000 pounds. You could probably tow more without any consequence - despite all the people telling you you need a body on frame truck and you need a V-8 engine, blah blah blah. And with that all the doom and gloom & "you're gonna die" that comes with it. Sheesh. I tow in PA mountains & get 3-4mpg better than I did in my V8 Durango with same trailer & weight. Handles it great. Torque vectoring is amazing, no torque steer as was the case in older Pilots. Never would get into gear 8 or 9 with a trailer on. Probably more like 4-5 most of highway time when under any load.

You absolutely DO want a weight distributing hitch. Big no brainer. I use the E-Qual-i-zer system - WELL worth it - controls sway VERY well & distributes weight all in 1. Great hitch been using for over 10 years. You definitely want NO sag. I would also use "S" mode with the transmission, shift points are a little higher & it starts out in first gear.

equalizerhitch.com you can buy on Amazon but I'd at least learn on equalizerhitch.com Your blood pressure will go down when towing substantially.

I'm presuming this goes without saying, but you HAVE to have trailer brakes AND a controller. Presuming you have the factory Honda hitch & wiring set up, the pre-wiring is already there. Just need an adapter to whatever controller you're using in the cockpit.

Good luck! (& let the flames begin!)

PS: take the whole rig to a CAT scale or similar truck scale. WEIGH IT - both separately (PP loaded like you will to travel) and the trailer. Be SURE of the weights.
 
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