Towing details a bit of a black hole

11053 Views 20 Replies 9 Participants Last post by abafred, Aug 23, 2019

EF23Z

Discussion Starter · May 5, 2019 (Edited by Moderator)

Hello all:

I'm new to the forum and considering an Elite - which I test drove and really like.

I'm discovering that just because a manufacture advertises 5,000 lb towing doesn't mean it can handle 500 lb tongue weight or that you can tow at highway speeds. I discovered this by reading through the online owner's manual for the new Kia Telluride which advertises a standard 5,000 lb towing. The devil's in the details.

I haven't been able to sleuth out whether the Passport can handle more than 350 lb tongue weight after the 5,000 lb accessories are added (ATF/hitch/handsfree adapter) by the dealer. Honda's literature - that I can find anyway - only mentions the 350 tongue weight with the description of the accessory parts. When they write about the 5,000 lb towing upgrade they fail to address the tongue weight at all. Has anyone seen this information out there?

I am still learning about towing, but would the Tire and Loading Information label settle this issue related to tongue weight? I didn't think to take a picture of it when I had the opportunity.

Annie

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407guy

· #2 · May 5, 2019 (Edited)

I don't think towing and tongue weight are necessarily related (increased towing weight means more tongue weight). Whether the towing capacity is 3500 lbs or 5000 lbs on the Passport, the hitch is the same -- which means the tongue weight is not changing.

EDIT: My comments are specific to the Passport and the "standard" towing capacity with the Honda OEM components vs the 5,000 lbs capacity. The parts are the same except for the addition of the ATF cooler.

mcrimm

· #3 · May 5, 2019

On my F-150, there is a yellow sticker on the driver’s door that shows carrying capacity. When calculating the available tongue weight, it is based on total carrying capacity on the truck. For example, if I have 4 200# adults and 750# in the bed, my allowable tongue weight is reduced by 1,550#. You must add accessories as well. A fuel tank of fuel in assumed.

I assume you have something similar in your Passport.
Mike

Reactions: 1

DudeCS

· #4 · May 5, 2019

Download the Passport Owner's Manual. There are sections in the manual that discusses towing and tongue weight. Search for "tongue" in the PDF for relevant sections.

407guy

· #5 · May 6, 2019

To help the OP, the manual says on page 441:

The weight of the tongue with a fully loaded trailer on the hitch should be approximately:
Boat trailers: 5 – 15% of the total trailer weight
Other trailers: 10 – 15% of total trailer weight

Page 441 also states that, 2 occupants with AWD and the ATF cooler has a tonuge weight of 500 lbs. 2WD is 350 lbs. [I always thought the tongue weight had to do with the amount of weight pushing down on the hitch (which would be dependent on how it was attached to the vehicle). *shrug* Back to the library for me...]

EF23Z

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 6, 2019

Thanks for the Owner's Manual link above and yes, good reading on page 441 and beyond. I was reading the Owner's GUIDE thinking I had the Manual. Oh well.

This puts me at ease about a respectable design for a 5,000 lb scenario. The numbers have a little play in them and I'm thinking they might be using an 11% safety factor in their load tables too. ??For what that's worth.

I don't plan to tow over 3500 but I like having more capacity than I'll use and safety factors are Good.

Also interesting to see the PP is designed to distribute weight between the axles without a weight distribution hitch but it's OK if the owner wants to add one. They expected that question and answered it.

The engineering behind tongue weight ratings is still a mystery for another day.....

Reactions: 1

EF23Z

Discussion Starter · #7 · May 6, 2019

Another question - the PP Manual on page 439 has:

The maximum load for your vehicle is 948 lbs (430 kg).

Can some owners confirm that number from your Tire and Loading Information Label “The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXX kg or XXX lbs.” ?

Want to double check because I was thinking it should vary with trim level and also seeing the Highlander in the range of 1300 lbs. Big delta.

Appreciate it.

DudeCS

· #8 · May 6, 2019

From an Elite, you probably want both labels...

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EF23Z

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 6, 2019

Thanks DudeCS for getting pics! Confirms it. 948/5291 vs Highlander 1300/6000.

Reactions: 1

Turbo25

· #10 · May 10, 2019

407guy said:
I don't think towing and tongue weight are necessarily related (increased towing weight means more tongue weight). Whether the towing capacity is 3500 lbs or 5000 lbs on the Passport, the hitch is the same -- which means the tongue weight is not changing.

EDIT: My comments are specific to the Passport and the "standard" towing capacity with the Honda OEM components vs the 5,000 lbs capacity. The parts are the same except for the addition of the ATF cooler.

Do you know what the going rates are for the dealership to install the ATF Cooler?

Krustyburger79

· #11 · May 10, 2019

Turbo25 said:
Do you know what the going rates are for the dealership to install the ATF Cooler?

Dealer here in NC quoted me $1650 (parts + labor; ATF cooler, harness, hitch, kick adapter, ball, and receiver)

Turbo25

· #12 · May 10, 2019

I am in the greater Greensboro area here in NC as well. Which dealer did you eventually go with?

Krustyburger79

· #13 · May 10, 2019

Crown Honda in Durham. First quote they gave me was $1K under invoice

Reactions: 1

Turbo25

· #14 · May 10, 2019

If you don't mind me asking, what was your out the door cost?

Krustyburger79

· #15 · May 10, 2019

With our N.C. tax, and $600 dealer fee, about $39.8K (Touring AWD; included $329 of accessories that I couldn’t get them to budge on/remove).

407guy

· #16 · May 11, 2019

Krustyburger79 said:
Dealer here in NC quoted me $1650 (parts + labor; ATF cooler, harness, hitch, kick adapter, ball, and receiver)

That is about what I was quoted here in central Florida. One dealership was $1600 and another is $2000. That is labor and all the parts quoted.

CodeMonkeyATL

· #17 · Jun 21, 2019

When I talked to my local dealer about a hitch on an EX-L AWD, they said that the Transmission Cooler was required or it would void the warranty. Total price out the door was going to be $1794.

CodeMonkeyATL

· #18 · Jun 21, 2019

Turbo25 said:
Do you know what the going rates are for the dealership to install the ATF Cooler?

My dealership quoted $744 for the ATF cooler.

darksky

· #19 · Jun 22, 2019

CodeMonkeyATL said:
When I talked to my local dealer about a hitch on an EX-L AWD, they said that the Transmission Cooler was required or it would void the warranty. Total price out the door was going to be $1794.

In my case I only want a hitch for my bike rack. I will never be towing. I wonder if the dealer would tell me a bike rack would void the warranty? Sounds kind of fishy to me.

CodeMonkeyATL

· #20 · Jun 22, 2019

If you just get the hitch, and plan to use it for cargo (not a trailer) and don't need the wiring harness (for a trailer), it would not void the warranty. In my case, I have a AWD with 9 speed transmission. They say that in my case if I get the hitch (with wiring harness) but do not get the cooler, then that would void my warranty. If I didn't have AWD, then I could get just the hitch and wiring harness (no cooler), it would be fine.

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