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Discussion Starter #41
To each his own. When you understand how big business works, and how easy it is for them to brush you aside, you have to step up the pressure. If you re-read my first post in this thread, you'll notice that I said I give dealers 2-3 chances to fix an issue, and then all bets are off. So I do take the friendly approach in trying to get problems solved. It's when they start denying that there is a problem, or dismiss it as "that's the way it just works", that's insulting an owner's intelligence, and not respecting their time. I don't have the time to spend hours upon hours visiting a dealership to fix a NEW car, especially a Honda. That's why I gave up on American cars a long time ago. Honda's ratings are slipping, which is a real shame. We can't stand by and let that happen. We have to hold them accountable for stuff like this. This is not "threatening", "infantile", "litigious", "embarrassing", or any other childish label you want to use. It's called getting what you've paid for. As stated previously, a $40,000+ vehicle should not have AC, infotainment, ACC, high beam, drained batteries, and other issues. This stuff is supposed to be worked out in R&D, testing, usage in other models, and production in other countries under different model names. Besides, the Passport is mainly based on the existing Pilot, using most of its components. That's all the more reason to expect more from Honda in getting the Passport right. Bottom line, friendly first, then demand results. Anything else is just a half-assed attempt to solving a problem efficiently and effectively. Let's stop with the jabs and work towards the common goal of helping people. We are not always going to agree. JM2C...
I think what you dont realize in terms of big business is Honda respects dealer sovereignty and will only intervene in special cases. Their customer support line is mostly their to placate complainers as the majority of complaints are not valid. America has a cultural bias and inherent distrust of dealers, which is certainly valid but less so for Honda. They truly are more strict with dealers.

The AC issue spans all big honda models made in Alabama and is due to the parts supplier more than the engineering or r&d of Honda. These things happen with virtually all brand new cars. Some dealers are better at catching issues pre-delivery than others.

Saying Honda’s reviews are slipping is also a fallacy. Most car companies are on the same level now. Honda redefined manufacturing and reliability standards in the 80s but most other companies have caught up or surpassed them. All cars are pretty darn good now. So its not that honda has slipped- others have caught up. Critics still adore honda and to me that means more than aggregated customer reviews or especially bs like JD power. I do admit that alabama-made hondas are of lesser build standards than indiana, canada, or Japan. This has pretty much always been the case. Alabama builds Passport, Pilot, Ridgeline, and Odyseey: the american engineered US market only models. I knew this buying mine. When I worked at a dealer we had far more pilots coming back to us than crvs. They are more complex too so thats part of it. Its more about initial fit and finish and first year teething issues than long term reliability. It’s still a japanese engineered drivetrain. Still a great car.

Making sweeping generalizations about Honda based on isolated individual incidents is silly. If you feel that way then go buy a kia!
 

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2020 Passport Elite - Modern Steel Metallic w/Black Leather
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I think what you dont realize in terms of big business is Honda respects dealer sovereignty and will only intervene in special cases. Their customer support line is mostly their to placate complainers as the majority of complaints are not valid. America has a cultural bias and inherent distrust of dealers, which is certainly valid but less so for Honda. They truly are more strict with dealers.

The AC issue spans all big honda models made in Alabama and is due to the parts supplier more than the engineering or r&d of Honda. These things happen with virtually all brand new cars. Some dealers are better at catching issues pre-delivery than others.

Saying Honda’s reviews are slipping is also a fallacy. Most car companies are on the same level now. Honda redefined manufacturing and reliability standards in the 80s but most other companies have caught up or surpassed them. All cars are pretty darn good now. So its not that honda has slipped- others have caught up. Critics still adore honda and to me that means more than aggregated customer reviews or especially bs like JD power. I do admit that alabama-made hondas are of lesser build standards than indiana, canada, or Japan. This has pretty much always been the case. Alabama builds Passport, Pilot, Ridgeline, and Odyseey: the american engineered US market only models. I knew this buying mine. When I worked at a dealer we had far more pilots coming back to us than crvs. They are more complex too so thats part of it. Its more about initial fit and finish and first year teething issues than long term reliability. It’s still a japanese engineered drivetrain. Still a great car.

Making sweeping generalizations about Honda based on isolated individual incidents is silly. If you feel that way then go buy a kia!
I'm still a diehard Honda fan, no doubt. I try the competition, but always gravitate back to a Honda model. My current 2005 Pilot was built in Canada, IIRC, and has been pretty rock solid all these years. It's got 227,000 miles on it, and still going. Bought it new expecting to keep it for 250,000 miles, but got the itch after seeing the Passport, and no longer having the need for a 3rd row. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a 2020 Elite, but don't want to run into the many issues I've been reading about, not only here, but on other car sites with owner reviews.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
See in my experience the 1st gen pilots were super unreliable. They had more issues than second gen or any other model aside from 1st gen odyssey. So clearly you take care of your cars. Good on you.

You should buy a PP without fear. The AC issue has largely been resolved: they use an entirely different condenser assembly now and only the first production run had the problem. It was literally just a poorly engineered seal on the condensor they used during that span of time and the design was revised.

The Passports are the distillation of all the best aspects of the 3rd gen pilot platform and beefed up and made more rugged. Ridgeline suspension. Better ground clearance. Sport mode. Third row delete and shorter wheelbase. Cooler appearance. Very comfortable and other subtle new touches like blacked out headliners and plastics vs gray. Theyre great.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
The other thing to remember when you read forums and reviews is the majority of people only comment because they have an issue. Very few sign up to give praise. I myself signed up because of my AC issue. We got to the bottom of it and shared what the deal is (this thread).

I’m not a spokesperson but my Passport has been rock solid and a joy to drive in any situation. The only issues I have had are the AC and initial infotainment bugs which are completely resolved via software updates, which occur via wifi in my garage automatically. Pretty neat.
 

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See in my experience the 1st gen pilots were super unreliable. They had more issues than second gen or any other model aside from 1st gen odyssey. So clearly you take care of your cars. Good on you.

You should buy a PP without fear. The AC issue has largely been resolved: they use an entirely different condenser assembly now and only the first production run had the problem. It was literally just a poorly engineered seal on the condensor they used during that span of time and the design was revised.

The Passports are the distillation of all the best aspects of the 3rd gen pilot platform and beefed up and made more rugged. Ridgeline suspension. Better ground clearance. Sport mode. Third row delete and shorter wheelbase. Cooler appearance. Very comfortable and other subtle new touches like blacked out headliners and plastics vs gray. Theyre great.
I always change my fluids on schedule, and even change the trans fluid every 30,000 miles still, even though Honda doesn't commend it after 150,000. Routine TLC and most cars will keep chugging. I'm glad to here that a different condenser is now used. You're getting me closer! :)
 

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Actually, based on the Dealer dropping the ball, I think this is the ONLY option...!

(I'd def. do it, if I was the one having this problem...)
 

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Kudos to you for taking the time to write a thorough summary of what you have been through. Ignoring the insensitive comments of the OP and deciding to move on I am sure will be the best for you. I sincerely hope you will be able to get the issue with your AC rectified to your satisfaction.
To each his own. When you understand how big business works, and how easy it is for them to brush you aside, you have to step up the pressure. If you re-read my first post in this thread, you'll notice that I said I give dealers 2-3 chances to fix an issue, and then all bets are off. So I do take the friendly approach in trying to get problems solved. It's when they start denying that there is a problem, or dismiss it as "that's the way it just works", that's insulting an owner's intelligence, and not respecting their time. I don't have the time to spend hours upon hours visiting a dealership to fix a NEW car, especially a Honda. That's why I gave up on American cars a long time ago. Honda's ratings are slipping, which is a real shame. We can't stand by and let that happen. We have to hold them accountable for stuff like this. This is not "threatening", "infantile", "litigious", "embarrassing", or any other childish label you want to use. It's called getting what you've paid for. As stated previously, a $40,000+ vehicle should not have AC, infotainment, ACC, high beam, drained batteries, and other issues. This stuff is supposed to be worked out in R&D, testing, usage in other models, and production in other countries under different model names. Besides, the Passport is mainly based on the existing Pilot, using most of its components. That's all the more reason to expect more from Honda in getting the Passport right. Bottom line, friendly first, then demand results. Anything else is just a half-assed attempt to solving a problem efficiently and effectively. Let's stop with the jabs and work towards the common goal of helping people. We are not always going to agree. JM2C...
Well put Beachbum07 !
 

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Reading this thread was an enormous waste of time. It's readers will come away highly dissatisfied and feeling empty, kind of like you feel after test driving a new Rav 4 before buying your Passport.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Reading this thread was an enormous waste of time. It's readers will come away highly dissatisfied and feeling empty, kind of like you feel after test driving a new Rav 4 before buying your Passport.
Yes. The OP was washed away in a river of tears. People werent reading it and were just using the thread to vent. So I deleted the OP.
 

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There is nothing you can do without serving here, out of charging the gas, and many people cannot do this too. In my opinion, the best way when something breaks down in the car of something else that you are not sure you can repair alone, better don't touch this because you will make worst and when professional would repair it, you will pay more than you could. When my air conditioner broke down I brought it to the aircon servicing same day.
 

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The AC sucks. My 2012 Passat's AC blows SO much colder that I have been driving that now that the weather is warmer. Can't wait to get rid of this thing.
 

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The AC sucks. My 2012 Passat's AC blows SO much colder that I have been driving that now that the weather is warmer. Can't wait to get rid of this thing.
my ac works fine...
 

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my ac works fine...
Mine too.
I say welcome to the large SUV black dashboard phenomenon. I have had several large SUV's and they invariably take much longer to cool down and even blow at maximum cool than a sedan. There is just too much super hot surface area and volume inside the vehicle ductwork, large plastic parts, seats, doors etc.that need to be cooled down before maximum comfort is achieved. Of course a little sedan will blow colder for the most part, it's like cooling a 100 sq foot office down vs a 50,000 sq foot warehouse, which by the way has reached potentially 130 degrees inside.I have gotten used to it, my wife drives a white Lexus sedan, that car will freeze you out but in contrast to the PP, you're inches away from the evaporator core...huge difference. She thinks the PP air is weak as well, but she said the same of all my other SUV's too, prior was a 2014 Explorer, it took a long time to get cold too. The PP is a bit better i feel. Living in PHX AZ, I can make this observation in good faith. LOL. If I park under covered parking which prevents the insane temps inside the PP, it cools down in half the time easy. One tip, after you have pushed most of the hot air out of the car and have turned on recirculation, turn the fan speed down a few notches. This way the air that passes by the evaporator core has a little extra time to get really cold before coming through the vents. And turn off rear air if nobody is back there.
 

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Holding the unlock button on the key fob when walking up to the PP to lower the windows down will help exhaust hot air. Or using remote start will get the AC going sooner. But, living in AZ you probably already know this.
 

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I think what you dont realize in terms of big business is Honda respects dealer sovereignty and will only intervene in special cases. Their customer support line is mostly their to placate complainers as the majority of complaints are not valid. America has a cultural bias and inherent distrust of dealers, which is certainly valid but less so for Honda. They truly are more strict with dealers.

The AC issue spans all big honda models made in Alabama and is due to the parts supplier more than the engineering or r&d of Honda. These things happen with virtually all brand new cars. Some dealers are better at catching issues pre-delivery than others.

Saying Honda’s reviews are slipping is also a fallacy. Most car companies are on the same level now. Honda redefined manufacturing and reliability standards in the 80s but most other companies have caught up or surpassed them. All cars are pretty darn good now. So its not that honda has slipped- others have caught up. Critics still adore honda and to me that means more than aggregated customer reviews or especially bs like JD power. I do admit that alabama-made hondas are of lesser build standards than indiana, canada, or Japan. This has pretty much always been the case. Alabama builds Passport, Pilot, Ridgeline, and Odyseey: the american engineered US market only models. I knew this buying mine. When I worked at a dealer we had far more pilots coming back to us than crvs. They are more complex too so thats part of it. Its more about initial fit and finish and first year teething issues than long term reliability. It’s still a japanese engineered drivetrain. Still a great car.

Making sweeping generalizations about Honda based on isolated individual incidents is silly. If you feel that way then go buy a kia!

aircon servicing


Kudos on the essay too though.
 
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