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Discussion Starter #21
Neither of you have the AC production issue a lot of us did in early models. We had NO REFRIGERANT AT ALL and faulty seals. Hondas do take a while to cool off compared to other brands, especially american. Cooling off a car at idle and low speeds is hard on it and it IS designed this way. Please don’t use this thread to vent. If you dont like it, use your remote start to cool it off before your precious little tushy has to sit on the hot leather. Poor thing.
 

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File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau against Honda, and another against your dealer. I would also demand to meet with a Honda District Service Manager to review the issue. You should get satisfaction from the DSM.
 

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Neither of you have the AC production issue a lot of us did in early models. We had NO REFRIGERANT AT ALL and faulty seals. Hondas do take a while to cool off compared to other brands, especially american. Cooling off a car at idle and low speeds is hard on it and it IS designed this way. Please don’t use this thread to vent. If you dont like it, use your remote start to cool it off before your precious little tushy has to sit on the hot leather. Poor thing.
Wow, that’s very offensive, and counterproductive!! This lady has a very valid concern and you belittle her? Did you even read the entire post where she specifically says she drove for 30 or 40 minutes, and the system was still blowing hot air??? You owe this lady an apology.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Wow, that’s very offensive, and counterproductive!! This lady has a very valid concern and you belittle her? Did you even read the entire post where she specifically says she drove for 30 or 40 minutes, and the system was still blowing hot air??? You owe this lady an apology.
Yes I’ve read every post in this thread. I created it. Did she read the first post? Did you? Doubt it. Every AC related thread is full of off topic whining about AC performance that doesn’t have to do with the very specific problem this thread is about.
 

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From what you are experiencing I can assure you that it is not working properly. I, and many others, do not take your complaint as "whining'. I have a Touring with about 8500 miles on it and the AC works really well. I live on the Southern CA coast where the weather is temperate but quite often go inland a few miles where the temp is very often in the mid 90s. I have also had it in 100 degree weather and it blows cool in both front and back and I am one who likes it on the "cool" side. This is with Modern Steel Metallic paint and black leather. BTW- Inexpensive AC thermometers are available at parts stores or on Amazon. Insert it in the center dash vent while the PP is in the shade. Vent any hot interior air before testing. Set the AC to Lo and on recirculate. The fan should be on low. Let it run for about 10 min.These settings will give you the lowest temp readings which should be around 43 degrees. Also, be sure to turn Auto Start Stop off and turn it off when ever you drive. It affects AC performance as mentioned in the Owner's Guide and Manual.
It sounds like you have contacted Honda Customer Service and you should have case number. Be sure to keep a log of the contacts you make with names, dates, etc with Honda Customer Service and all the the work orders from the dealer or dealers. The Better Business Bureau will do nothing for you. The next step is to submit a claim for Arbitration. The info on how to do this is in the Owner's Guide, not the Manual. The Arbitration process is handled by an independent organization and they respond rapidly. They also expedite the process. You will meet with an Arbiter and a Honda rep and be given an opportunity to present your case. Honda is obligated to respond to your initial claim and is obligated to attend the meeting. The arbiter is not associated with Honda. Honda is required to honor the arbiter's decision but you are not.The point to make in your claim is that your issue is not a "design defect" as not all Passports have AC issues such as yours. It is a "manufacturing defect" which is covered by the warranty. Wish you the best of luck!
 

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Yes I’ve read every post in this thread. I created it. Did she read the first post? Did you? Doubt it. Every AC related thread is full of off topic whining about AC performance that doesn’t have to do with the very specific problem this thread is about.
So you created the thread. Congratulations...But the "very specific problem" as I see it has nothing to do with AC at all but rather with your very condescending remarks to some one that has valid concerns with their AC and is obviously frustrated with the lack of cooperation from Honda. It may have taken more effort on your part, but you could have at least offered some suggestions on how she could possibly proceed to have her concern rectified.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Okay here’s some advice.
1. Don’t listen to the dumb advice of most people on this thread.
2. A meat thermometer is not the right tool to measure AIR temp.
3. The thermostat values ARE inaccurate in EVERY car. There are just too many values such as barometric pressure, humidity, etc. A car baking in the sun all day WILL take longer to cool off. Roll down your windows maybe?
4. Click the unlock button on your fob three times, holding it on the last. This will roll your shit down before you get in. Couple that with your remote start and you’re cooling off fast.
5. Making generalizations about a global company based on an experience with a dealer or two is a fallacy. Honda actually holds their dealers to a higher standard than most and will help you if you aren’t hysterical. They deal with hysteria a lot so it’s part of their job to separate reality from hysterics. The experiences of others on this forum will not be the same as yours.
6. Due to new regulations ACs are charged with less effective refrigerant and are designed to operate more efficiently and not sap as much power from your car. Many people mistake this for poor quality or performance but long term your car will thank you.
7. This thread was created for people with the particular issue present in early PP production runs where TOTAL refrigerant loss occurred due to faulty seals on the condenser. This issue is obvious at a dealer and testing your refridgerant levels is the first thing they do for free. You can easily test it yourself by tapping on the vent valve and releasing some just like air from a tire. It will hiss and spray some out. This is illegal though so maybe dont. If you have coolant you should not post in this thread as you do not have the issue this thread was created for. I created this thread with a ton of super detailed info to provide a resource for people who had the same issue as me. It’s been taken over by complaints with poor descriptions of the issue from people clearly needing to vent.
8. Arbitration and BBB will be a huge waste of time and possibly money and will just stress you out more. That is REAL DUMB advice for something pretty basic. Arbitration is really for more life and death stuff.
9. District manager is probably your best bet but good luck actually getting one on the phone let alone in person.
10. Try different dealerships. Play dumb and act like you dont know anything. Going in there fired up will only make them defensive.
11. The dealer where you bought it does have somewhat more responsibility to you. Maybe try going through the sales department and their management if service isnt helpful. Sometimes that works.

Seriously with the torches and pitchforks and whining and bad advice. It doesnt help anyone. You all owe me and apology for derailing my thread with all your hysterics. Its a friggin AC boo hoo.
 

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File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau against Honda, and another against your dealer. I would also demand to meet with a Honda District Service Manager to review the issue. You should get satisfaction from the DSM.

The BBB is a private company, they are not related to the Government, they do not have any power to effect anything. I don't know of anyone who actually consults with them, perhaps some people here do. You might as well be leaving a negative message, on Yelp, or Glassdoor, or Indeed...

In California the entity connected to the (Cal) Government is named Consumer Affairs and they are obliged to investigate and have the authority to yank company's business license or fine them. Perhaps other states have an equivalent...
 

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Okay here’s some advice.
1. Don’t listen to the dumb advice of most people on this thread.
2. A meat thermometer is not the right tool to measure AIR temp.
3. The thermostat values ARE inaccurate in EVERY car. There are just too many values such as barometric pressure, humidity, etc. A car baking in the sun all day WILL take longer to cool off. Roll down your windows maybe?
4. Click the unlock button on your fob three times, holding it on the last. This will roll your shit down before you get in. Couple that with your remote start and you’re cooling off fast.
5. Making generalizations about a global company based on an experience with a dealer or two is a fallacy. Honda actually holds their dealers to a higher standard than most and will help you if you aren’t hysterical. They deal with hysteria a lot so it’s part of their job to separate reality from hysterics. The experiences of others on this forum will not be the same as yours.
6. Due to new regulations ACs are charged with less effective refrigerant and are designed to operate more efficiently and not sap as much power from your car. Many people mistake this for poor quality or performance but long term your car will thank you.
7. This thread was created for people with the particular issue present in early PP production runs where TOTAL refrigerant loss occurred due to faulty seals on the condenser. This issue is obvious at a dealer and testing your refridgerant levels is the first thing they do for free. You can easily test it yourself by tapping on the vent valve and releasing some just like air from a tire. It will hiss and spray some out. This is illegal though so maybe dont. If you have coolant you should not post in this thread as you do not have the issue this thread was created for. I created this thread with a ton of super detailed info to provide a resource for people who had the same issue as me. It’s been taken over by complaints with poor descriptions of the issue from people clearly needing to vent.
8. Arbitration and BBB will be a huge waste of time and possibly money and will just stress you out more. That is REAL DUMB advice for something pretty basic. Arbitration is really for more life and death stuff.
9. District manager is probably your best bet but good luck actually getting one on the phone let alone in person.
10. Try different dealerships. Play dumb and act like you dont know anything. Going in there fired up will only make them defensive.
11. The dealer where you bought it does have somewhat more responsibility to you. Maybe try going through the sales department and their management if service isnt helpful. Sometimes that works.

Seriously with the torches and pitchforks and whining and bad advice. It doesnt help anyone. You all owe me and apology for derailing my thread with all your hysterics. Its a friggin AC boo hoo.
No body owes you anything! You created the thread, big deal. You do not own it. Many of the threads on this Form include posts from owners that have related concerns that evolve from the original. Bad advice??? Telling someone to test if there is refrigerant (no "d" in the word btw), to let AC gas escape through a port could be extremely dangerous. You were obviously addressing this horrible advice to a lay person who knows nothing about automobile AC systems. Doing what you said is indeed illegal, but more importantly possibly very dangerous if gas is let out on the high pressure side of the system. Safety goggles, gloves and long sleeve shirts would be required to do this amateur maneuver. There are inexpensive AC test gauges available at every major parts store that include detailed instructions.
In addition, it is plainly obvious that you are not remotely familiar with the arbitration process Honda uses. The prep time involves a few hours and the actual arbitration meeting lasts about 90 minutes. It is held at the dealer of your choice at absolutely NO COST to you. And, again, Honda has to honor the arbiters decision but you, the owner, do not. If you have been rebuffed by service managers general managers,owners, and Honda Customer Service w/o any satisfaction you don't have many alternatives. Live with the problem, contact a lawyer which will cost plenty, or submit a claim through arbitration.
 

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The BBB is a private company, they are not related to the Government, they do not have any power to effect anything. I don't know of anyone who actually consults with them, perhaps some people here do. You might as well be leaving a negative message, on Yelp, or Glassdoor, or Indeed...

In California the entity connected to the (Cal) Government is named Consumer Affairs and they are obliged to investigate and have the authority to yank company's business license or fine them. Perhaps other states have an equivalent...
Steve, I am very familiar with the BBB. It is just one avenue of getting some satisfaction and action from a dealership. The BBB will contact the business with the complaint, and require a response. If the complaint is not resolved, or the business fails to respond, the business’ rating gets dinged. I’ve used them several times, including against one of my Honda dealers, and got great results.

In case people don’t know, a district service manager visits the dealerships in his area usually once every two weeks. You can request time with the DSM through your local service manager. If they won’t oblige, call Honda customer service who will then call either the dealership or DSM.

I’ve owned 7 Hondas over 30 years and used the BBB and DSM to resolve issues. It’s up to you how you want to handle a problem. I give the dealer 2-3 attempts to fix a problem, then all bets are off.

This is supposed to be a community to share experiences and ideas, not to bully or ostracize members who you disagree with. Swenpaylay could have simply provided the link to what he considers to be the appropriate thread, instead of stomping his feet like a child and telling the lady to go elsewhere. Oh, and using all caps when typing just shows what a jerk you really are.

A few bad apples in a forum can drive away many members, and give the forum a bad name. Happens all of the time. You need new members to bring in fresh ideas and experiences. Swenpaylay handled this situation entirely wrong, and is not even man enough to admit it. So much for trying to help people! This thread is now a poor example of how to act in a community created to help one another.
 

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OK, let's try to keep this on a non-personal level!

It's one thing to tell someone you don't agree with what they say, but this seems to be escalating and before people start calling people names, lets get back to being helpful *& respectful.

I don't want to be forced to start deleting stuff...

Cheers...
 

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Discussion Starter #32
OK, let's try to keep this on a non-personal level!

It's one thing to tell someone you don't agree with what they say, but this seems to be escalating and before people start calling people names, lets get back to being helpful *& respectful.

I don't want to be forced to start deleting stuff...

Cheers...
Honestly you probably should delete this thread. It lots its meaning long ago. Basically a river of tears now. It’s also far too tempting for me to troll since I get notifications every time someone starts crying. If we’re talking about respect and such theres a serious lack of gratitude for the resource I created here. The OP took me like two days of dealing with a service dept and a couple of hours to write. People are simply ignoring the OP and just posting their hysteric off topic testimonies and getting each other riled up. Someone who claims to regularly hit up BBB or arbitrate with Honda clearly has a litigious personality and will stop at nothing to prove they are right even when they are clearly not.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
BBB is a joke and people who make a point of complaining to it regularly are about as potato as it gets. If anything a dealership will add a note that you are a difficult customer and never treat you the same. BBB is honestly a racket. Dealerships dont care about it. I own a business myself and BBB calls me quarterly threatening to give me a bad rating if I don’t PAY THEM and register. Basically blackmailing me into joining their bs club. I tell them to go to hell. Noone checks BBB ratings unless they are mad and my business has never made anyone mad. Also If we’re qualifying our credibility I’ll say I’ve owned about a dozen Hondas over thirty years and worked at a dealership for some of that time. Some opinions are worth more than others, take it from the OP.
 

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First of all, thanks to those that took the time to offer advice, it is much appreciated. I have gone to two dealerships, and spoke with the service managers at each who both suggested I speak with the district service manager who visits every few weeks. At the first dealership (where vehicle was purchased) The service manager personally spoke with the district service manager and after that discussion I was told there was nothing they could do Bc it was operating up to spec. I then was offered the choice to Make an appointment with the district service manager myself, or to speak with the manager of the dealership. I chose to speak with the manager of the dealership because it was someone to speak with in the here and now compounded with the fact that the service manager already spoke with the regional district manager. I thought at that point I would have more luck w the general manager of the dealership at the time, however he was not helpful at all. And I mean helpful in a sense that he Deferred to the service department, and would not take initiative to rectify the air conditioning situation. After doing several troubleshooting tasks, riding in the car with them, and them taking my vehicle overnight checking the behavior of the ac on a longer drive and doing other tests such as comparing to another PP’s in the lot, and Contacting and waiting for the Honda master mechanic at headquarters (sorry, offhand I don’t recall the exact Division/terminology used ), I was frustrated with that dealership and did not want to Work with that dealership any longer so I decided to try another dealership because I thought for sure I would get help. Therefore I declined at that point from that dealership to meet with the district service manager.

I went to another Apple service place who really didn’t want to look into issue Bc the new car was purchased at another dealership but ultimately they looked at my vehicle. I would like to point out that after all of my inconvenience, and my expression of frustration, I was sure to maintain my composure, and not act “hysterical “when speaking to the service manager at the second dealership. That dealership also acknowledged that the air was blowing out 88°, From the front when the thermostat was set at 70 And i had them document it . They couldn’t believe it either, and called the district service manager to discuss. I’m assuming that it was the same district manager that was spoken to at the previous dealership, and so she was prepared with the same answer that I was given at the other dealership . I told the second dealership that I was offered to meet with the district service manager at the other dealership for my issue, and that I would like to meet with her. At the second dealership, they told me she would not meet with me bc there was no problem with the vehicle and that it had already been discussed and deemed working up to spec. I was offered to speak with the regional service manager, and because I went to another dealership in hopes that they would rectify the problem The offering was revoked — The dealership suggested that my only other option was to write to Honda corporation, because there was nothing they could do at this point.

I did just that, and collected all my data and pictures and sent it In to them. After writing a letter to Honda corporation and speaking with them several times on the telephone, They suggested I bring it back to the service department where I purchased the vehicle. At this this point now the summer is over and now the fall is close to over, I was not able to duplicate such “extreme” variances in temperature due to the weather in my area. I didn’t want to waste more of my time bringing the car in again because I couldn’t readily duplicate the problem connxsistebtly at that point. The air conditioner did not behave As erratic because of the change in temperature/season, so I told them I will have to put it to rest for now And that I will revisit it in the summer when it becomes an issue again. The case was closed.

Referring to the meat thermometer that I was using to record my temperatures, I sat right alongside the service manager with my meat thermometer and i got the exact same numbers sticking it in the vents as his thermometer. Also, unless the outside temperature gauge is wrong on the passport, I was getting within 1° when testing the outside temperature compared to what the Honda was reading. So telling me that the meat thermometer is not accurate is actually false. It is for sure within 3°, and almost always within 1° of the service managers values.

It is well known that many factors such as barometric pressure, humidity and condensation, play into controlling the temperature and with these new high-tech air conditioning systems/thermostats, that the temperature readings were extremely erratic. How the car behaves to get To the temperature desired, fluctuated greatly. I would check it while driving, at different times of the day, raining, not raining, in the dark, night time, in the sun, 70° weather outside, 90° weather outside, I tested multiple variables, and just found it To behave unpredictable and erratic. It is very difficult to explain that to the dealership. It is hard to duplicate the problem when you don’t have someone sitting in the car driving Around for an hour or so. So that adds to the frustration. They check the car over a five minute span. And they take the car out for a drive, and check it for a few minutes. And sometimes you can’t be certain what the thermometer will spit out, but it behaves very erratically, and unpredictably.

there’s not much I can do about it right now after the steps I’ve taken and it is what it is. I promise you though that someone sitting in an hour long car ride with me in the summer, will comment saying how hot it is in the car when the temperature is set at 70°. And my response is that Honda said it is working up to spec. Passengers cannot believe that Honda says that it is working up to spec. Will that passenger buy a Honda? Or buy one again? I can’t answer that, but I know What my answer would be. In the beginning, My frustration was that I spent $40,000 plus on a vehicle, and other people confirm and agree that the thermostat/ac is clearly not working properly, but yet im told that this is how the ac worksin this day and age. To the gentleman who quoted me As was whining and the many other “personal “ things said, I would love for you to have my vehicle, and be told that the air conditioning and the thermostat are working properly. I would like to see how you would react. Luckily for you, your issue was a refrigerant problem, and the problem was easily identified and then easily fixed. I can understand why you are considering my frustration as whining, However, you don’t know what it feels like. I’m stating facts, and you squashed the facts and are telling me what you want to tell me. You are very lucky, that you are now happy with how your air conditioning is performing. I wish you had mine to see what it was like. You are assuming I am hysterical and that nothing is wrong with it.

You, yourself got very frustrated over starting a thread and that it went off into a different direction. You actually were so frustrated the first time, you started a whole separate thread. So you understand frustration—You actually demanded an apology for YOUR thread being derailed and the hysterics — wow, Imagine that they told you your air conditioner was fine and that they wouldn’t fix it. I can’t imagine how frustrated you would be then — Did anybody criticize you for your whining, and hysteria, because the thread that you started didn’t go as planned? Because In an air conditioning threadpeople discussed faulty air conditioners and didn’t SPECIFICALLY discuss lack of refrigerant as the cause?

Be nice, lucky for you (again, Bc you are lucky your air conditioner was fixed and now works properly) nobody disrespected you and blasted you, and called you hysterical, inflexible, controlling, whining, as you did to others. Be nice and don’t assume - it’s a forum. trust me, You would be very frustrated if you had my air conditioner unit and had the experiences I had trying to get it to work properly. When you spend the money you do, you don’t expect to be told not to look at the number you set the controls at. Again, off by a few degrees, fine— but not blowing out 104 from the rear when it is set at 72 degrees.

Again, thanks to those with advice and being understanding of my frustration - I was just trying to convey my frustration and see if anyone else had the problems I have Had. I do apologize for taking up space and taking too much time complaining because it doesn’t do anyone any good. And I complained a lot and. I one wants to hear that much . I don’t apologize for my comments about Honda . I know they are a great company and make great cars and I am really shocked and surprised that they are not validating my complaints and they are ignoring pictures and ignoring their own service managers opinions. Those are facts.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
First of all, thanks to those that took the time to offer advice, it is much appreciated. I have gone to two dealerships, and spoke with the service managers at each who both suggested I speak with the district service manager who visits every few weeks. At the first dealership (where vehicle was purchased) The service manager personally spoke with the district service manager and after that discussion I was told there was nothing they could do Bc it was operating up to spec. I then was offered the choice to Make an appointment with the district service manager myself, or to speak with the manager of the dealership. I chose to speak with the manager of the dealership because it was someone to speak with in the here and now compounded with the fact that the service manager already spoke with the regional district manager. I thought at that point I would have more luck w the general manager of the dealership at the time, however he was not helpful at all. And I mean helpful in a sense that he Deferred to the service department, and would not take initiative to rectify the air conditioning situation. After doing several troubleshooting tasks, riding in the car with them, and them taking my vehicle overnight checking the behavior of the ac on a longer drive and doing other tests such as comparing to another PP’s in the lot, and Contacting and waiting for the Honda master mechanic at headquarters (sorry, offhand I don’t recall the exact Division/terminology used ), I was frustrated with that dealership and did not want to Work with that dealership any longer so I decided to try another dealership because I thought for sure I would get help. Therefore I declined at that point from that dealership to meet with the district service manager.

I went to another Apple service place who really didn’t want to look into issue Bc the new car was purchased at another dealership but ultimately they looked at my vehicle. I would like to point out that after all of my inconvenience, and my expression of frustration, I was sure to maintain my composure, and not act “hysterical “when speaking to the service manager at the second dealership. That dealership also acknowledged that the air was blowing out 88°, From the front when the thermostat was set at 70 And i had them document it . They couldn’t believe it either, and called the district service manager to discuss. I’m assuming that it was the same district manager that was spoken to at the previous dealership, and so she was prepared with the same answer that I was given at the other dealership . I told the second dealership that I was offered to meet with the district service manager at the other dealership for my issue, and that I would like to meet with her. At the second dealership, they told me she would not meet with me bc there was no problem with the vehicle and that it had already been discussed and deemed working up to spec. I was offered to speak with the regional service manager, and because I went to another dealership in hopes that they would rectify the problem The offering was revoked — The dealership suggested that my only other option was to write to Honda corporation, because there was nothing they could do at this point.

I did just that, and collected all my data and pictures and sent it In to them. After writing a letter to Honda corporation and speaking with them several times on the telephone, They suggested I bring it back to the service department where I purchased the vehicle. At this this point now the summer is over and now the fall is close to over, I was not able to duplicate such “extreme” variances in temperature due to the weather in my area. I didn’t want to waste more of my time bringing the car in again because I couldn’t readily duplicate the problem connxsistebtly at that point. The air conditioner did not behave As erratic because of the change in temperature/season, so I told them I will have to put it to rest for now And that I will revisit it in the summer when it becomes an issue again. The case was closed.

Referring to the meat thermometer that I was using to record my temperatures, I sat right alongside the service manager with my meat thermometer and i got the exact same numbers sticking it in the vents as his thermometer. Also, unless the outside temperature gauge is wrong on the passport, I was getting within 1° when testing the outside temperature compared to what the Honda was reading. So telling me that the meat thermometer is not accurate is actually false. It is for sure within 3°, and almost always within 1° of the service managers values.

It is well known that many factors such as barometric pressure, humidity and condensation, play into controlling the temperature and with these new high-tech air conditioning systems/thermostats, that the temperature readings were extremely erratic. How the car behaves to get To the temperature desired, fluctuated greatly. I would check it while driving, at different times of the day, raining, not raining, in the dark, night time, in the sun, 70° weather outside, 90° weather outside, I tested multiple variables, and just found it To behave unpredictable and erratic. It is very difficult to explain that to the dealership. It is hard to duplicate the problem when you don’t have someone sitting in the car driving Around for an hour or so. So that adds to the frustration. They check the car over a five minute span. And they take the car out for a drive, and check it for a few minutes. And sometimes you can’t be certain what the thermometer will spit out, but it behaves very erratically, and unpredictably.

there’s not much I can do about it right now after the steps I’ve taken and it is what it is. I promise you though that someone sitting in an hour long car ride with me in the summer, will comment saying how hot it is in the car when the temperature is set at 70°. And my response is that Honda said it is working up to spec. Passengers cannot believe that Honda says that it is working up to spec. Will that passenger buy a Honda? Or buy one again? I can’t answer that, but I know What my answer would be. In the beginning, My frustration was that I spent $40,000 plus on a vehicle, and other people confirm and agree that the thermostat/ac is clearly not working properly, but yet im told that this is how the ac worksin this day and age. To the gentleman who quoted me As was whining and the many other “personal “ things said, I would love for you to have my vehicle, and be told that the air conditioning and the thermostat are working properly. I would like to see how you would react. Luckily for you, your issue was a refrigerant problem, and the problem was easily identified and then easily fixed. I can understand why you are considering my frustration as whining, However, you don’t know what it feels like. I’m stating facts, and you squashed the facts and are telling me what you want to tell me. You are very lucky, that you are now happy with how your air conditioning is performing. I wish you had mine to see what it was like. You are assuming I am hysterical and that nothing is wrong with it.

You, yourself got very frustrated over starting a thread and that it went off into a different direction. You actually were so frustrated the first time, you started a whole separate thread. So you understand frustration—You actually demanded an apology for YOUR thread being derailed and the hysterics — wow, Imagine that they told you your air conditioner was fine and that they wouldn’t fix it. I can’t imagine how frustrated you would be then — Did anybody criticize you for your whining, and hysteria, because the thread that you started didn’t go as planned? Because In an air conditioning threadpeople discussed faulty air conditioners and didn’t SPECIFICALLY discuss lack of refrigerant as the cause?

Be nice, lucky for you (again, Bc you are lucky your air conditioner was fixed and now works properly) nobody disrespected you and blasted you, and called you hysterical, inflexible, controlling, whining, as you did to others. Be nice and don’t assume - it’s a forum. trust me, You would be very frustrated if you had my air conditioner unit and had the experiences I had trying to get it to work properly. When you spend the money you do, you don’t expect to be told not to look at the number you set the controls at. Again, off by a few degrees, fine— but not blowing out 104 from the rear when it is set at 72 degrees.

Again, thanks to those with advice and being understanding of my frustration - I was just trying to convey my frustration and see if anyone else had the problems I have Had. I do apologize for taking up space and taking too much time complaining because it doesn’t do anyone any good. And I complained a lot and. I one wants to hear that much . I don’t apologize for my comments about Honda . I know they are a great company and make great cars and I am really shocked and surprised that they are not validating my complaints and they are ignoring pictures and ignoring their own service managers opinions. Those are facts.
You have a very long winded account of your interactions with dealers and this forum but have provided very little in the way of specifics. Did they test your refrigerant charge? They should for free. If you have the issue this thread is about it’s a dead giveaway. Saying it simply doesn’t blow cold isn’t really much to go on. If it can get your air down to 80 in the summer it probably is working. Cars get up to 200 degrees baking in the sun. Mine was blowing well over 100 when I had the issue. Its doubtful you’ll ever be able to match vent temp to thermostat temp. It takes cars a long time to reach thermostat temp in the heat of summer if they can at all depending on how hot and humid it is. 80 is reasonable if its 100+ outside.
 

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Again, thanks to those with advice and being understanding of my frustration - I was just trying to convey my frustration and see if anyone else had the problems I have Had. I do apologize for taking up space and taking too much time complaining because it doesn’t do anyone any good. And I complained a lot and. I one wants to hear that much . I don’t apologize for my comments about Honda . I know they are a great company and make great cars and I am really shocked and surprised that they are not validating my complaints and they are ignoring pictures and ignoring their own service managers opinions. Those are facts.
Wow, I can certainly feel your frustration with this AC issue, and it's EXTREMELY sad that Honda Corp and Honda Dealers are ignoring the complaints from many people on many DIFFERENT issues.

Keep fighting- you have the right to be COOL....!

and do keep us updated here..

Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #37
First of all, thanks to those that took the time to offer advice, it is much appreciated. I have gone to two dealerships, and spoke with the service managers at each who both suggested I speak with the district service manager who visits every few weeks. At the first dealership (where vehicle was purchased) The service manager personally spoke with the district service manager and after that discussion I was told there was nothing they could do Bc it was operating up to spec. I then was offered the choice to Make an appointment with the district service manager myself, or to speak with the manager of the dealership. I chose to speak with the manager of the dealership because it was someone to speak with in the here and now compounded with the fact that the service manager already spoke with the regional district manager. I thought at that point I would have more luck w the general manager of the dealership at the time, however he was not helpful at all. And I mean helpful in a sense that he Deferred to the service department, and would not take initiative to rectify the air conditioning situation. After doing several troubleshooting tasks, riding in the car with them, and them taking my vehicle overnight checking the behavior of the ac on a longer drive and doing other tests such as comparing to another PP’s in the lot, and Contacting and waiting for the Honda master mechanic at headquarters (sorry, offhand I don’t recall the exact Division/terminology used ), I was frustrated with that dealership and did not want to Work with that dealership any longer so I decided to try another dealership because I thought for sure I would get help. Therefore I declined at that point from that dealership to meet with the district service manager.

I went to another Apple service place who really didn’t want to look into issue Bc the new car was purchased at another dealership but ultimately they looked at my vehicle. I would like to point out that after all of my inconvenience, and my expression of frustration, I was sure to maintain my composure, and not act “hysterical “when speaking to the service manager at the second dealership. That dealership also acknowledged that the air was blowing out 88°, From the front when the thermostat was set at 70 And i had them document it . They couldn’t believe it either, and called the district service manager to discuss. I’m assuming that it was the same district manager that was spoken to at the previous dealership, and so she was prepared with the same answer that I was given at the other dealership . I told the second dealership that I was offered to meet with the district service manager at the other dealership for my issue, and that I would like to meet with her. At the second dealership, they told me she would not meet with me bc there was no problem with the vehicle and that it had already been discussed and deemed working up to spec. I was offered to speak with the regional service manager, and because I went to another dealership in hopes that they would rectify the problem The offering was revoked — The dealership suggested that my only other option was to write to Honda corporation, because there was nothing they could do at this point.

I did just that, and collected all my data and pictures and sent it In to them. After writing a letter to Honda corporation and speaking with them several times on the telephone, They suggested I bring it back to the service department where I purchased the vehicle. At this this point now the summer is over and now the fall is close to over, I was not able to duplicate such “extreme” variances in temperature due to the weather in my area. I didn’t want to waste more of my time bringing the car in again because I couldn’t readily duplicate the problem connxsistebtly at that point. The air conditioner did not behave As erratic because of the change in temperature/season, so I told them I will have to put it to rest for now And that I will revisit it in the summer when it becomes an issue again. The case was closed.

Referring to the meat thermometer that I was using to record my temperatures, I sat right alongside the service manager with my meat thermometer and i got the exact same numbers sticking it in the vents as his thermometer. Also, unless the outside temperature gauge is wrong on the passport, I was getting within 1° when testing the outside temperature compared to what the Honda was reading. So telling me that the meat thermometer is not accurate is actually false. It is for sure within 3°, and almost always within 1° of the service managers values.

It is well known that many factors such as barometric pressure, humidity and condensation, play into controlling the temperature and with these new high-tech air conditioning systems/thermostats, that the temperature readings were extremely erratic. How the car behaves to get To the temperature desired, fluctuated greatly. I would check it while driving, at different times of the day, raining, not raining, in the dark, night time, in the sun, 70° weather outside, 90° weather outside, I tested multiple variables, and just found it To behave unpredictable and erratic. It is very difficult to explain that to the dealership. It is hard to duplicate the problem when you don’t have someone sitting in the car driving Around for an hour or so. So that adds to the frustration. They check the car over a five minute span. And they take the car out for a drive, and check it for a few minutes. And sometimes you can’t be certain what the thermometer will spit out, but it behaves very erratically, and unpredictably.

there’s not much I can do about it right now after the steps I’ve taken and it is what it is. I promise you though that someone sitting in an hour long car ride with me in the summer, will comment saying how hot it is in the car when the temperature is set at 70°. And my response is that Honda said it is working up to spec. Passengers cannot believe that Honda says that it is working up to spec. Will that passenger buy a Honda? Or buy one again? I can’t answer that, but I know What my answer would be. In the beginning, My frustration was that I spent $40,000 plus on a vehicle, and other people confirm and agree that the thermostat/ac is clearly not working properly, but yet im told that this is how the ac worksin this day and age. To the gentleman who quoted me As was whining and the many other “personal “ things said, I would love for you to have my vehicle, and be told that the air conditioning and the thermostat are working properly. I would like to see how you would react. Luckily for you, your issue was a refrigerant problem, and the problem was easily identified and then easily fixed. I can understand why you are considering my frustration as whining, However, you don’t know what it feels like. I’m stating facts, and you squashed the facts and are telling me what you want to tell me. You are very lucky, that you are now happy with how your air conditioning is performing. I wish you had mine to see what it was like. You are assuming I am hysterical and that nothing is wrong with it.

You, yourself got very frustrated over starting a thread and that it went off into a different direction. You actually were so frustrated the first time, you started a whole separate thread. So you understand frustration—You actually demanded an apology for YOUR thread being derailed and the hysterics — wow, Imagine that they told you your air conditioner was fine and that they wouldn’t fix it. I can’t imagine how frustrated you would be then — Did anybody criticize you for your whining, and hysteria, because the thread that you started didn’t go as planned? Because In an air conditioning threadpeople discussed faulty air conditioners and didn’t SPECIFICALLY discuss lack of refrigerant as the cause?

Be nice, lucky for you (again, Bc you are lucky your air conditioner was fixed and now works properly) nobody disrespected you and blasted you, and called you hysterical, inflexible, controlling, whining, as you did to others. Be nice and don’t assume - it’s a forum. trust me, You would be very frustrated if you had my air conditioner unit and had the experiences I had trying to get it to work properly. When you spend the money you do, you don’t expect to be told not to look at the number you set the controls at. Again, off by a few degrees, fine— but not blowing out 104 from the rear when it is set at 72 degrees.

Again, thanks to those with advice and being understanding of my frustration - I was just trying to convey my frustration and see if anyone else had the problems I have Had. I do apologize for taking up space and taking too much time complaining because it doesn’t do anyone any good. And I complained a lot and. I one wants to hear that much . I don’t apologize for my comments about Honda . I know they are a great company and make great cars and I am really shocked and surprised that they are not validating my complaints and they are ignoring pictures and ignoring their own service managers opinions. Those are facts.
Now I feel invested in you solving this issue. I truly in my heart think BBB and arbitration will be a waste of your time. Some dealerships and district managers just suck. I never had good luck with district managers either even though its what people suggest.

If I were you I’d try these options: appeal to the GM or the owner of the dealership. They tend to have big egos so stroking their ego helps. They also dont like having a bad rep. Service departments dont care about that stuff as much and do deal with a lot of crazies so their level of empathy really isnt there. You could also just go have your AC tested by a third party shop. It will cost you money but hey you own an expensive car so I assume you can pony up 80 bucks for an AC inspection. ACs are very volatile and can be damaging to the environment if they vent to atmosphere. A good AC inspection is thorough and will identify the problem. Armed with that documentation you can probably turn the tide. Finally you could try calling out of your district. Just sit down and call service managers all over until one confirms this issue exists. I’m not sure how hondas districts are layed out these days but even going to a different state could help. Hell print of the scan I posted and just ask a tech if this could be your issue. Other people have.

I apologize for being rude to you. Most of my annoyance was at the people shaking their torches at me on your behalf and speaking for you. Clearly you can speak for yourself. Good luck.

PS what’s the production date on your rig? If it’s winter 2018/2019 there’s a high likelihood you have the same issue as a lot of us. Its on the sticker on your door jam.
 

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2020 Passport Elite - Modern Steel Metallic w/Black Leather
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The key to solving problems like this is to open a case with Honda, which you did previously. As you get the run around, call Honda back and ask them to update your case with the names of the people you’ve spoken with, and what they have said and done. You need the backing of Honda corporate. A local service manager or GM is only concerned with meeting their numbers. Spending a lot of time troubleshooting a warranty issue cuts into their profit.

A DSM should not be refusing to meet with owners with documented problems. If they do refuse, call Honda back and let them know. I’m sure you’ll get satisfaction. Also, dealers strive for 5 star ratings from their customers. Let the service manager know that you can’t give them 5 stars with the way that your problem is being dismissed. I know dealers in my area practically beg for 5 stars. Survey results go directly to Honda corporate. If bad ratings start coming in, Honda definitely looks into them and will reach out to the dealer directly.

Stick with one dealer, and work the case. Don’t let them off the hook. Let them know you’ve opened a case, and will have it updated along the way. The squeaky wheel will get the help in the end. It’s lousy that you have to go through this whole process to get them to fix the issue. But by doing so, you’re contributing to the greater good of the Passport community. When the next owner comes in with the same problem, they will probably have a much better outcome due to your efforts. By letting them dismiss your issue, they win, and you have buyer’s remorse.

Also, don’t forget to use social media. Let the sales manager of your dealership know that you’re very unhappy, and that you’re considering posting reviews about how poorly you’ve been treated. You have to use a multi-pronged approach to put enough pressure on the dealership to help you. Your time is valuable, just as your vehicle is, and get them to respect it! Best of luck to you!!
 

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Discussion Starter #39
The key to solving problems like this is to open a case with Honda, which you did previously. As you get the run around, call Honda back and ask them to update your case with the names of the people you’ve spoken with, and what they have said and done. You need the backing of Honda corporate. A local service manager or GM is only concerned with meeting their numbers. Spending a lot of time troubleshooting a warranty issue cuts into their profit.

A DSM should not be refusing to meet with owners with documented problems. If they do refuse, call Honda back and let them know. I’m sure you’ll get satisfaction. Also, dealers strive for 5 star ratings from their customers. Let the service manager know that you can’t give them 5 stars with the way that your problem is being dismissed. I know dealers in my area practically beg for 5 stars. Survey results go directly to Honda corporate. If bad ratings start coming in, Honda definitely looks into them and will reach out to the dealer directly.

Stick with one dealer, and work the case. Don’t let them off the hook. Let them know you’ve opened a case, and will have it updated along the way. The squeaky wheel will get the help in the end. It’s lousy that you have to go through this whole process to get them to fix the issue. But by doing so, you’re contributing to the greater good of the Passport community. When the next owner comes in with the same problem, they will probably have a much better outcome due to your efforts. By letting them dismiss your issue, they win, and you have buyer’s remorse.

Also, don’t forget to use social media. Let the sales manager of your dealership know that you’re very unhappy, and that you’re considering posting reviews about how poorly you’ve been treated. You have to use a multi-pronged approach to put enough pressure on the dealership to help you. Your time is valuable, just as your vehicle is, and get them to respect it! Best of luck to you!!
I don’t support this approach at all. It’s a surefire way to get the dealer mad at you and be forever labeled as a difficult customer. Threatening a social media smear campaign is infantile. Thanks beach bum for outlining the litigious approach that so many people try and fail with. It doesn’t work and comes with the expense of extra stress, embarrassment, and most of all: time. Remove anything personal from the matter. The dealer doesnt owe you any special treatment. Just be cool and constructive. Get someone on your side. Its much easier that way and how I got mine fixed super quickly.
 

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2020 Passport Elite - Modern Steel Metallic w/Black Leather
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I don’t support this approach at all. It’s a surefire way to get the dealer mad at you and be forever labeled as a difficult customer. Threatening a social media smear campaign is infantile. Thanks beach bum for outlining the litigious approach that so many people try and fail with. It doesn’t work and comes with the expense of extra stress, embarrassment, and most of all: time. Remove anything personal from the matter. The dealer doesnt owe you any special treatment. Just be cool and constructive. Get someone on your side. Its much easier that way and how I got mine fixed super quickly.
To each his own. When you understand how big business works, and how easy it is for them to brush you aside, you have to step up the pressure. If you re-read my first post in this thread, you'll notice that I said I give dealers 2-3 chances to fix an issue, and then all bets are off. So I do take the friendly approach in trying to get problems solved. It's when they start denying that there is a problem, or dismiss it as "that's the way it just works", that's insulting an owner's intelligence, and not respecting their time. I don't have the time to spend hours upon hours visiting a dealership to fix a NEW car, especially a Honda. That's why I gave up on American cars a long time ago. Honda's ratings are slipping, which is a real shame. We can't stand by and let that happen. We have to hold them accountable for stuff like this. This is not "threatening", "infantile", "litigious", "embarrassing", or any other childish label you want to use. It's called getting what you've paid for. As stated previously, a $40,000+ vehicle should not have AC, infotainment, ACC, high beam, drained batteries, and other issues. This stuff is supposed to be worked out in R&D, testing, usage in other models, and production in other countries under different model names. Besides, the Passport is mainly based on the existing Pilot, using most of its components. That's all the more reason to expect more from Honda in getting the Passport right. Bottom line, friendly first, then demand results. Anything else is just a half-assed attempt to solving a problem efficiently and effectively. Let's stop with the jabs and work towards the common goal of helping people. We are not always going to agree. JM2C...
 
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