My Brakes Adventure

4824 Views 19 Replies 8 Participants Last post by jasonpp, Oct 24, 2021

mjsparky363

Discussion Starter · May 18, 2021

I have a 2020 EX-L (13000+)that I have had issues with the brakes from the day I picked the car up.. On my 1st drive from NC to NY with less than 1000 miles I warped a rotor. When I took it to Honda I was told that they will cut the rotor only and replacement was a maintenance item....so similar to an Accord I had in the 80's I just figured I would get replace pads and rotors. The other issue is the low and spongy pedal, low enough so when I have work boots on I catch the gas pedal with the edge of my foot. With that I started left foot braking to avoid the issue. So before I put the new stuff on I went to Honda for the pedal issue but found out that "they all are like that". My,my...So today I had time to install the new pads and rotors.(Raybestos EHT152 pads/981053 performance rotors) and it turned out to be a clusterf***. The right caliper stay bolt was crosstreaded so I had to run out and find a replacement and a tap then I could not get the rotor off the hub because of corrosion. Had to use the 2 bolt holes and work it off. The rear side pad was stuck with rust to the caliper pucks and the metal slide pieces that the pads slide on were lubed on the bottom side that doesn't move. 1st time in all my years that I have seen that. On to the left and it went a bit better except getting the rotor off. I was amazed at all the corrosion on all the bolts for a vehicle that only saw 1 snow storm before heading back down to NC. I then decided to bleed the brakes (I only had me and a vacuum type bleeder). I got some air out but I could not get the right front clear of air bubbles. The pedal is definitely higher and less spongy but still not the way I feel it should be. I will find someone to help bleeding them the proper way. No more "hand massaging" steering wheel activated by the brake pedal so I'm getting there...I hope!

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HarveyW

· #2 · May 18, 2021

A couple of Questions.
Did you bed the brakes right after you picked up the vehicle?

Did you bed the brakes that you just installed?

One of the issues with newer brakes and brake materials is that failing to bed new brake pads and or pads and new rotors is excessive deposit of of brake material onto the rotors, causing the symptoms you described, That is probably why Honda was willing to turn the rotor as it had uneven deposits on it. Keep in mind it is virtually impossible to actually warp a rotor. Warped rotors is a generic term these days since it is just about as cheap to put on new rotors as it is to turn them.

How To Bed In Brakes, How To Break In New Brake Pads

Need to break in your new brake pads for maximum performance and safety? Follow this procedure for bedding in your brakes.

www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com

.

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carpayments4life

· #3 · May 18, 2021

If everything has failed, try this to tap/bang out any air pockets.
It's more work, but the results are great: Caliper in hand, as you bleed the air out.
Once I put larger rear calipers, from a '93 Prelude on my kid's '00 Integra. The new calipers were mounted, with their bleed valve at 6 o'clock. You can't bleed air out of the bottom of anything.
I held the caliper, wedged a board in (to simulate pads), and I tapped on it with a rubber mallet, as someone held pressure on the pedal. I did this with the bleeder valve pointing in many different directions. I pointed the valve to 12 o'clock to let the air out. I repeated on each caliper.
Excellent results.
When I put Stainless Steel braided brake hoses on my '97 MDX, I used the same "caliper in hand" method. Again excellent results.

johara1

· #4 · May 18, 2021

mjsparky363 said:
I have a 2020 EX-L (13000+)that I have had issues with the brakes from the day I picked the car up.. On my 1st drive from NC to NY with less than 1000 miles I warped a rotor. When I took it to Honda I was told that they will cut the rotor only and replacement was a maintenance item....so similar to an Accord I had in the 80's I just figured I would get replace pads and rotors. The other issue is the low and spongy pedal, low enough so when I have work boots on I catch the gas pedal with the edge of my foot. With that I started left foot braking to avoid the issue. So before I put the new stuff on I went to Honda for the pedal issue but found out that "they all are like that". My,my...So today I had time to install the new pads and rotors.(Raybestos EHT152 pads/981053 performance rotors) and it turned out to be a clusterf***. The right caliper stay bolt was crosstreaded so I had to run out and find a replacement and a tap then I could not get the rotor off the hub because of corrosion. Had to use the 2 bolt holes and work it off. The rear side pad was stuck with rust to the caliper pucks and the metal slide pieces that the pads slide on were lubed on the bottom side that doesn't move. 1st time in all my years that I have seen that. On to the left and it went a bit better except getting the rotor off. I was amazed at all the corrosion on all the bolts for a vehicle that only saw 1 snow storm before heading back down to NC. I then decided to bleed the brakes (I only had me and a vacuum type bleeder). I got some air out but I could not get the right front clear of air bubbles. The pedal is definitely higher and less spongy but still not the way I feel it should be. I will find someone to help bleeding them the proper way. No more "hand massaging" steering wheel activated by the brake pedal so I'm getting there...I hope!

I hope you used torque wrench to tighten the wheel bolts, to not have any more warped rotors...

mjsparky363

Discussion Starter · #5 · May 18, 2021

Well the vehicle had just over 300 miles when I picked it up. I realize “warped” is an overused term but doing a runout test with a simple homemade gauge the rt front had a bit more runout that just pad build up. The fact that I needed an impact gun on a 14mm bolt that I couldn’t budge with a 1/2” x18” breaker bar really upset me. The fact the slide grease was on the wrong side bothered me. The broken windshield (not caused by road debris) bothers me the needed new battery bothers me the fact that the center display won’t display bothers me. It’s crazy because I travel back and forth 11hours at a time and it is far and away one of the most comfortable roomy vehicles that I have owned. I love that and the power and the gas mileage. The quality unfortunately, at least in my case, isn’t there for a 34000+ vehicle .

johara1 said:
I hope you used torque wrench to tighten the wheel bolts, to not have any more warped rotors...

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mjsparky363

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 18, 2021

Torqued all the wheels. I will have to try the bleeding method. I also may not had enough grease around the bleeder screw so the pump was pulling air around the bleed screw treads

KYBubblehead

· #7 · May 19, 2021

mjsparky363 said:
Well the vehicle had just over 300 miles when I picked it up. I realize “warped” is an overused term but doing a runout test with a simple homemade gauge the rt front had a bit more runout that just pad build up. The fact that I needed an impact gun on a 14mm bolt that I couldn’t budge with a 1/2” x18” breaker bar really upset me. The fact the slide grease was on the wrong side bothered me. The broken windshield (not caused by road debris) bothers me the needed new battery bothers me the fact that the center display won’t display bothers me. It’s crazy because I travel back and forth 11hours at a time and it is far and away one of the most comfortable roomy vehicles that I have owned. I love that and the power and the gas mileage. The quality unfortunately, at least in my case, isn’t there for a 34000+ vehicle .

I, for one, am sorry to hear you have such problems. (Knock on wood) I have not experienced anything at all so far.

Reactions: 1

louierg

· #8 · May 19, 2021

HarveyW said:
A couple of Questions.
Did you bed the brakes right after you picked up the vehicle?

Did you bed the brakes that you just installed?

One of the issues with newer brakes and brake materials is that failing to bed new brake pads and or pads and new rotors is excessive deposit of of brake material onto the rotors, causing the symptoms you described, That is probably why Honda was willing to turn the rotor as it had uneven deposits on it. Keep in mind it is virtually impossible to actually warp a rotor. Warped rotors is a generic term these days since it is just about as cheap to put on new rotors as it is to turn them.

How To Bed In Brakes, How To Break In New Brake Pads

Need to break in your new brake pads for maximum performance and safety? Follow this procedure for bedding in your brakes.

www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com

.

Others have complained about warped rotors. 33,000 miles including miles of windy mountain roads and no warpage. I suggest Honda may know more than they may share. Then again some drivers have no clue as to how to not warp the rotors. Drivers can warp them. i do not suggest either you or Honda are at fault, but that the fault lies with one or both.

louierg

· #9 · May 19, 2021

mjsparky363 said:
Well the vehicle had just over 300 miles when I picked it up. I realize “warped” is an overused term but doing a runout test with a simple homemade gauge the rt front had a bit more runout that just pad build up. The fact that I needed an impact gun on a 14mm bolt that I couldn’t budge with a 1/2” x18” breaker bar really upset me. The fact the slide grease was on the wrong side bothered me. The broken windshield (not caused by road debris) bothers me the needed new battery bothers me the fact that the center display won’t display bothers me. It’s crazy because I travel back and forth 11hours at a time and it is far and away one of the most comfortable roomy vehicles that I have owned. I love that and the power and the gas mileage. The quality unfortunately, at least in my case, isn’t there for a 34000+ vehicle .

What were you thinking just before you took delivery? That may be a clue.

HarveyW

· #10 · May 19, 2021

louierg said:
Others have complained about warped rotors. 33,000 miles including miles of windy mountain roads and no warpage. I suggest Honda may know more than they may share. Then again some drivers have no clue as to how to not warp the rotors. Drivers can warp them. i do not suggest either you or Honda are at fault, but that the fault lies with one or both.

Warped rotors is a catch all phrase for a host of problems. Rotors are cast at around 2600 degrees F, even the most aggressive braking will not get rotors anywhere near that temperature to cause the metal to actually warp.

Most issues with warped rotors are from pad transfer buildup or uneven rotor wear. The buildup creates an out of balance issue with the rotor that can be remedied with turning the rotors. Turning the rotors will take away some of the surface material of the rotors as well. With the price of new rotors being comparable to the price of turning rotors it's just as easy and cheap to just replace the rotors as it is to remove them machine them and put them back on.

www.mechanic.com.au

Solved: The Mystery of Warped Brake Rotors

www.mechanic.com.au

mjsparky363

Discussion Starter · #11 · May 19, 2021

What was I thinking before I bought it? That I was getting a reliable quite comfortable suv to travel back and forth with. I also didn’t want swf or a black interior hence the milage for transport from 1 dealer to the other. As for my out of round rotor that happened on I 81 with a 75 mph to 0 stop for a nerd that changed lanes which caused a panic with the cars ahead of me and probably soiled the guy behind me pants. It was hard enough to trigger the abs on a dry road for the length of a 2 footed stop.
What ever it was rotor, brake pad residue, it is gone now Love the initial bit of the new pads and finally got the right front caliper bled using the hand held method and pointing the bleeder about 2 oclock so no issues hitting both pedals with my work boots on. Now to try and get the center stack to display and a new windshield and all will be well…I hope

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Chrisd

· #12 · May 19, 2021

I picked up my 21 EX-L 2 1/2 months ago with 29mi on it. I have put 3700mi on it. Since day one I have had a minor "warped" feeling, mainly when lightly applying the brakes to get on a off ramp. When I took it in , the service guys said that they have not heard of any issues, but the could cut them. I opted not to have them cut. I tried explaining that it comes and goes, which I agree is weird. I have not had any "Hard braking" events. So sounds like there could be a issue that is just starting to surface. It is worth noting that my dad has a 18 Ridgeline with 32k, he has had the issue pretty much since new as well. Given that both the Ridgeline and Passport share the same platform.......who knows.

mjsparky363

Discussion Starter · #13 · May 19, 2021

Chrisd said:
I picked up my 21 EX-L 2 1/2 months ago with 29mi on it. I have put 3700mi on it. Since day one I have had a minor "warped" feeling, mainly when lightly applying the brakes to get on a off ramp. When I took it in , the service guys said that they have not heard of any issues, but the could cut them. I opted not to have them cut. I tried explaining that it comes and goes, which I agree is weird. I have not had any "Hard braking" events. So sounds like there could be a issue that is just starting to surface. It is worth noting that my dad has a 18 Ridgeline with 32k, he has had the issue pretty much since new as well. Given that both the Ridgeline and Passport share the same platform.......who knows.

I have been driving 55 years and only had brake issues with 1other car, a 1986 Honda Accord.

Chrisd

· #14 · May 19, 2021

mjsparky363 said:
I have been driving 55 years and only had brake issues with 1other car, a 1986 Honda Accord.

If I'm understanding you, I agree, I have not had many problems with brakes either, especially Honda. However I found it weird that from day one I've had vibrations, and looking through the threads, there are plenty issues out there, could be something Honda is not aware of, or does not see as a issue.

mjsparky363

Discussion Starter · #15 · May 19, 2021

Chrisd said:
If I'm understanding you, I agree, I have not had many problems with brakes either, especially Honda. However I found it weird that from day one I've had vibrations, and looking through the threads, there are plenty issues out there, could be something Honda is not aware of, or does not see as a issue.

When I called Honda corporate about the issue I was told that they would cut the rotors but if the rotors were warped or would not true up after being cut it then became a maintenance item meeting you’re out of luck buddy.! Because Honda does not cover maintenance items under warranty so I think with the number issues out there it’s a lot more than brake pad transferred to the rotor but who am I I’m not a mechanic to somebody’s been working on cars on an offer seems like forever

louierg

· #16 · May 19, 2021

HarveyW said:
Warped rotors is a catch all phrase for a host of problems. Rotors are cast at around 2600 degrees F, even the most aggressive braking will not get rotors anywhere near that temperature to cause the metal to actually warp.

Most issues with warped rotors are from pad transfer buildup or uneven rotor wear. The buildup creates an out of balance issue with the rotor that can be remedied with turning the rotors. Turning the rotors will take away some of the surface material of the rotors as well. With the price of new rotors being comparable to the price of turning rotors it's just as easy and cheap to just replace the rotors as it is to remove them machine them and put them back on.

Solved: The Mystery of Warped Brake Rotors

www.mechanic.com.au

Did not know new vehicle rotors would get uneven wear. Thank you. The manufacturer is responsible under warranty. Replacing rotors does nothing if the issues of wear are not addressed.

johara1

· #17 · May 20, 2021

Honda sure knows how to dance around the issues..... I had issues at 400 miles and got the same story. ....

jasonpp

· #18 · Oct 11, 2021

My 500 mile Touring also has minor brake pulsating. It's more obvious at higher speed than lower speed. I have been driving it gently allowing the brake pads to bed in slowly. If they don't go away by 1000 miles, I will try the more aggressive bedding in procedure.

Chrisd

· #19 · Oct 23, 2021

Well.......11,100k I am not a aggressive driver, and these front brakes shake like they are doing a jig across the dance floor. They never seated right, or were not right from day one, or the moons have not aligned, who knows anymore. It is absolutely getting exhausting and seemingly becoming a full time job getting Honda to get their stuff right.

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jasonpp

· #20 · Oct 24, 2021

Chrisd said:
Well.......11,100k I am not a aggressive driver, and these front brakes shake like they are doing a jig across the dance floor. They never seated right, or were not right from day one, or the moons have not aligned, who knows anymore. It is absolutely getting exhausting and seemingly becoming a full time job getting Honda to get their stuff right.

At 800 miles, I came off an interstate ramp hit the brakes they sounded like freight train. Pulled in the garage and noticed black spots on the rotor. After a week of normal low speed driving, the spots went away. I have never seen brakes this bad when new. It's almost like they used the cheapest rotors they could find.

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