[Mark]

I really like what I have seen so far. I have a 2013 EXL Accord v6 with 60k miles that I'm looking to trade in once I find the right vehicle. My only concern is how far below the MSRP I can possibly get being that this is a new model. I'm looking at the AWD Touring model. Any advice would be appreciated.

They are technically not supposed to sell them until Feb 4. The dealer I test drives with is not looking to budge much yet....they only had two on the lot. Give it time and save $$. I'm sure your accord will keep running .... mane even longer than the Passport will be in production?

 

[Mark]

https://www.bochhonda.com/vehicle/5FNYF8H05KB001640-New-2019-Honda-Passport-AWD/

Until you get there and they low-ball your trade vehicle....... [/QUOTE

 

[Mark]

Honda messed up on this one. Most people just aren't going to feel good about the thought of paying 4K more for a smaller pilot.

Telling them you will wait is just telling them you are committed to the vehicle.

I suggest telling them it's not reasonable to pay more for a smaller Pilot and can't feel good about that. And that you will have to look at other brands.
If they hear that enough..., maybe they will get more reasonable.

 

[Mark]

Mark, I'd like to respectfully ask, how you arrived at a Passport being 4k more than a Pilot, I just went to the Honda site and built a Pilot Touring with a bunch of accessories and it came out to $46k.

The Passport Touring starts at $39k, + $2k for AWD + $1k in accessories and another $1k in destination and it's at $43k.

But, by going by your statement of $4k more, it should be at $50k and it doesn't seem to be(?)

Hi, you are looking at MSRP. Pilots are selling for close to 4K below MSRP to stay competitive with the market.

I had a deal in hand for a 2019 Pilot EXL AWD for 36 K. With my 2k tax and tags for Delaware I was 38k on the road. No trade in to complicate or blur the numbers.

But I wanted to wait a couple of weeks to see and drive the Passport. I don't need three row seats, didn't love the stretched look, and hoped for a much sportier and a little cheaper Passport .

I went and test drove the Passport. It is simply a shorter Pilot with 20 inch wheels. Same engine, same transmission, same interior. The dealer would not match the almost 4K discount for the Passport.

So respectfully , if you are a person that only looks at and pays MSRP. You will see that the MSRP for the Passport is a little less than same level Pilot. If your happy with that then I don't want to burst your bubble.

But to me almost 4K is a lot of money. And the dealers still make a reasonable amount selling the Pilot almost 4K below MSRP.

A quick explanation of car negotiations:

MSRP is a price the manufacturer suggests the dealer sell the car for.

Invoice price Minus any incentive and dealer hold back is what the dealer actually paid for the car. This number is typically much less than MSRP.

Dealers typically will negotiate down below Invoice but will need to and should make some money on the sale. They usually won't give up the dealer hold back ( around $900).

Factoring in a trade in complicates the negotiation. I recommend first negotiating with no trade. After you come to terms and only then .... discuss what they will give you for your car.

Taxes and tags are different for every state. So, comparing on the road prices may not tell the full story.

The internet has revolutionized car sales. Sites like NADA give solid information on invoice etc... Also many large volume dealers advertise very aggressive deals on new cars.

So, to make a long story short....
I could have bought a 2019 EXL AWD Pilot for 36 K.
A Passport EXL AWD is 39355.

So $3355. To match the price.

And since it is less of a car than the Pilot I would look for it to be a little less.... bringing it closer to 4K.

But, if everyone runs in and pays MSRP. That is what they are going to keep selling them for.

If it's worth that for you, then be happy.

 

[Mark]

Hi, you are looking at MSRP. Pilots are selling for close to 4K below MSRP to stay competitive with the market.

I had a deal in hand for a 2019 Pilot EXL AWD for 36 K. With my 2k tax and tags for Delaware I was 38k on the road. No trade in to complicate or blur the numbers.

But I wanted to wait a couple of weeks to see and drive the Passport. I don't need three row seats, didn't love the stretched look, and hoped for a much sportier and a little cheaper Passport .

I went and test drove the Passport. It is simply a shorter Pilot with 20 inch wheels. Same engine, same transmission, same interior. The dealer would not match the almost 4K discount for the Passport.

So respectfully , if you are a person that only looks at and pays MSRP. You will see that the MSRP for the Passport is a little less than same level Pilot. If your happy with that then I don't want to burst your bubble.

But to me almost 4K is a lot of money. And the dealers still make a reasonable amount selling the Pilot almost 4K below MSRP.

A quick explanation of car negotiations:

MSRP is a price the manufacturer suggests the dealer sell the car for.

Invoice price Minus any incentive and dealer hold back is what the dealer actually paid for the car. This number is typically much less than MSRP.

Dealers typically will negotiate down below Invoice but will need to and should make some money on the sale. They usually won't give up the dealer hold back ( around $900).

Factoring in a trade in complicates the negotiation. I recommend first negotiating with no trade. After you come to terms and only then .... discuss what they will give you for your car.

Taxes and tags are different for every state. So, comparing on the road prices may not tell the full story.

The internet has revolutionized car sales. Sites like NADA give solid information on invoice etc... Also many large volume dealers advertise very aggressive deals on new cars.

So, to make a long story short....
I could have bought a 2019 EXL AWD Pilot for 36 K.
A Passport EXL AWD is 39355.

So $3355. To match the price.

And since it is less of a car than the Pilot I would look for it to be a little less.... bringing it closer to 4K.

But, if everyone runs in and pays MSRP. That is what they are going to keep selling them for.

If it's worth that for you, then be happy.

 

[Mark]

https://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2019/Honda/Pilot/EX-L-AWD/Pricing

 

[Mark]

And here is 2019 Toyota Highlander Platinum that is loaded. It is naturally a few inches shorter than the Pilot. Has more options than Passport elite. 825 watt stereo with 12 speakers. Better feeling seats. Panoramic roof! Selling for thousands less than the Passport Touring.

 

[Mark]

Mark, I'd like to respectfully ask, how you arrived at a Passport being 4k more than a Pilot, I just went to the Honda site and built a Pilot Touring with a bunch of accessories and it came out to $46k.

The Passport Touring starts at $39k, + $2k for AWD + $1k in accessories and another $1k in destination and it's at $43k.

But, by going by your statement of $4k more, it should be at $50k and it doesn't seem to be(?)

And my research puts the Passport touring AWD list price s little less than $43k. This sheet I got direct from a dealer .

FYI, I was also told it would be $1500 to get a touring or elite tow ready for 5000lbs. That is $500 more than highlander. They claim those models are more because they have to move the under bumper rear door kick sensor.

And the "adventure package MSRP is almost 4K! "

 

[Mark]

Thanks Mark, seems like you are very knowledgeable about this and it will be helpful when I actually buy (Apr/May 2019). Hopefully the initial new-release dust will have settled by then. I had never heard of the "Nada" site (thanks for that too) and will certainly use it when the time comes.
Your Welcome. Good luck!
In speaking to the Saleswoman at Honda yesterday she told me that Honda "Headquarters" will tell the Dealers which vehicles to offer added incentives on at the first of each month and they typically pass that along to the customer (by reducing the price). She said there were a lot of incentives in Dec-2018 that disappeared in Jan-2019 and people who had (Dec) offers were no longer able to get the deal.

Another consideration I read somewhere that Honda expected to sell 45,000 Passports per year and if they deliberately maintain a low number of units at each dealership, that will allow the dealers to hold off giving big discounts to clear inventory.

As with most vehicles it is a matter of supply and demand, if the market is flooded with unsold Passports, that is better for all of us in our negotiations. Being in Southern California, I have the advantage of having at least SIX Honda Dealers, within 15 miles of me and another TEN within 25/30 miles, so I plan to take full advantage of making these "Helpful" Honda guys prove it!

Cheers

 

[Mark]

The plant manufacturing the Pilot, Passport, Odyssey, MDX and Ridgeline either just expanded or is in the midst of an expansion so hopefully they can pump enough of these vehicles out. I heard though they are still operating close to max output so my guess is supply will still be constrained. It was not easy finding deals on the pilot the first model year and I actually went out of state to save $2500 on my 2017. Good luck finding significant discounts or incentives any time soon for the Passport. Anyone finding one with a discount close to what they could get on a Pilot is lucky. Maybe a volume dealer at the end of a month or quarter.[/QUOTE
You have many good points. Hence the problem of paying thousands more for a passport than a pilot and trying to feel good about it. They could have side stepped this problem by making the Passport more distinct and not a short pilot.

I would highly recommend people test drive a Toyota Highlander. You may hate it but you may love it. It is naturally shorter than the Pilot. And they are getting ready to launch a big redesign 2020 so good deals are available. Why not give it a spin?

Passport is already getting hammered by consumer reports. "Stubby pilot"...."mundane". 5/10 score

 

[Mark]

Had a 2017 platinum highlander AWD....gas mileage was absolutely horrible and driving it was like driving a minivan....kept it a year. Did not enjoy it all. But, with the highlander, you can count on Toyota to run a model year end deal with 0% interest financing and cut pretty good deals on them to unload them. I believe the highlander is due for a remodel for 2020, so Toyota will be “giving away” the 2019’s......

 

[Mark]

Yes I mentioned the 2020 coming out and agree great time to get a big deal on 2019 or see the big improvemnts for 2020.

Gas mileage reported on Highlander is better than both pilot and passport.

And Pilot gas mileage is better than passport!

I test drove two Highlander's vs Pilot and time Highlander felt more luxury. But that is subjective.

Highlander also had a hybrid version. I don't know mileage on it because I didn't consider hybrid .... but I would guess it is better.

 

[Mark]

Back to the original topic, when I looked at Passports at two different dealers yesterday (only test drove at one of them) the sales people said I was the first one looking at / driving them, neither seemed like there was a mad rush on them (which may be good for potential buyers)...

 

[Mark]

Same experience I had. The perception of the mad rush is not reality. But ther are always a few that need to be the first to buy something. And we are on a forum targeted to people following the Passport. And there are Honda loyalists that only but Honda.

They are going to try to make them seem hard to get.

I would also be interested to find out if some of the people on this forum are actually honda sales people???.

The fact is they are not planning to produce a lot of Passports. So if they are sitting on the lot... that would be even more telling.

I can say with a high degree of certainty that they are not going to increase in price this yesr?. And if you want one three months from now you will get one.

 

[Mark]

Or they could have made the Passport significantly more sporty. And look much different than the Pilot. Going after the niche of people that want something that makes a bold statement ..... they could have even charged more for that and got it. But , then it would compete with struggling Acura dealers.

I may have thought of a win win solution. Have them throw in the Adventure package at no charge and pay MSRP otherwise. That package is close to 4K MSRP but dealer costs less.

You get a more distinct Passport at a compareable price to Pilot.

 

[Mark]

I test drove the AWD Touring model today and loved it. I definitely will be buying it’s just a matter of when. So they drove my accord and only offered me 11k. I got them up to 13k. My goal was to finance 25k after trade in and down payment. I got the dealer down to 31,256 including taxes and fees with my 13k trade in. I wanted them down to 30k even, then I would kick in 5k to finance 25k. They would not budge so I told them to call me if they change there mind and they will have a sale. I’m going to be checking with every dealership in the Louisville KY area.

Very hard to decipher your deal within the trade in. May I suggest next dealer you negotiate with when they ask if their is trade say no. Then negotiate on Passport. After you get the bottom line on passport , then negotiate the trade. I would have kelly blue book , nada and edmunds info on hand to justify my trade expectations.... ask at the high end of trade in value and accept mid range.

 

[Mark]

Another Honda article shows profits down 40%,
LINK: https://www.autonews.com/video/first-shift-honda-profit-tumbles-40-percent

When that happens to an American retailer, they typically go belly-up.

It also said the Honda fiscal year ends Mar., 31, 2019

What better way to start off the new Honda fiscal year than by giving some nice fat discounts starting in April(?)

 

[Mark]

Interesting video. I have heard Acura is sucking wind. Both Honda and Acura are used to a sedan market. And sedan sales are way down. Right now SUV and Truck is what is selling.

I just spent the day cleaning out and detailing my 2007 Camry. I've had it for 12 years. 118k miles and still looks great. Looks so good now I may hate to see it go. But, it should keep me comfortable until I get a deal I can feel good about ?. Might just have to wait until Fall/Winter. By that time Honda should have the kinks worked out and Toyota will have the new 2020 redesigned Hylander on the floor.