[ballisticexchris]

This is from another Passport group. I received the same letter today.

I received my letter yesterday. This is kind of good actually. I'll end up with free valve checks/adjustments for the next 10 years. That is going to chop off at least 1.4hrs of my labor at the 60K timing belt replacement.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Are you certain that's how the EW reads in that any and all future valve adjustments will be covered up to an additional 10 years?

It's only related to the starting condition. You simply state you are having start/stop issues and valve check or adjustment will be required if they relays and starter check out ok.

The Passport does not have a visual battery voltage indicator. The battery warning light on the instrument panel is for the alternator, it comes on when your alternator is not charging the battery.

Mine does. I keep my cheap Fluke meter with me and check voltage periodically. Another option is to get an adapter for the cig socket that shoes voltage. Meter is just as simple though....

 

[ballisticexchris]

Did Honda build any of those into your Passport or you got them third party? In case you missed the import of my response, it's - If you need to know your battery charge level you have to get a third party gizmo.

The OEM battery is built in. I simply hook up my meter periodically. Very few of the current modern vehicles in our class come with a built in voltmeter on the dash. Checking voltage is as simple as pulling the dipstick. I will say it is nice to see the voltage while driving.

Scan Gauge FTW (as it also provides the all important transmission temperature)

I personally would not recommend any of those type of devices as they put your port into diagnostic mode. This in turn overrides some the vehicles ECU and can prevent things such as air bags, ABS/antilock braking and other important features from functioning.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Another option is a Blue Sea:

https://www.bluesea.com/products/1733/Mini_OLED_DC_Voltmeter_-_Yellow

I'm rolling with the Powerwerx meters in the back of my truck. Very stout and cheap. For the passport it would be a simple install in the dash and wires passed though the wiring harness with a Firewall Grommet Wire Insertion Tool.

 

[ballisticexchris]

But your response is a bit short this time on the dozens of trucking business tools you typically pat yourself on the back for having to hook up to your vehicle. Perhaps you should reel it all out again with the usual picture?

I don't understand? What trucking tools are you talking about? A simple meter is what I was discussing. Nothing to do with the trucking industry. The Fluke meter is part of my collection of electrical tools I have been using for decades. The Powerwerx meters are in my personal vehicle.

What is wrong with hooking up a meter? Some members come on this forum griping and complaining when they could have taken simple preventative steps as I have. I'm doing nothing more than what a dealer or repair facility does during routine maintenance.

I'm simply giving options to our community. Please let the member decide what they choose in regards to optional choices.

For those members with lesser skills or ignorant as to the use of simple tools, there is always the option of a 12V socket meter easily found on amazon.

Can someone verify this please.

The data is there in front of you. This is electrical 101. A diagnostic port is only to be used for diagnostics and repair. Nothing else. This is common sense and some vehicles have worse issues than others when using that port for other than its intended purpose. The OBD2 has a bi-directional protocol. All kinds of problems crop up when you mess with a ISO 15765 CAN bus circuit plugging in these stand alone aftermarket gauges.

 

[ballisticexchris]

What does a valve adjustment have to do with the starter and starter relays?

When the valves sink into the seats it can cause a hard start condition. Hondas have the rockers with screw style adjustment. They require more frequent attention than the bucket over shim design. Normal interval to check/adjust them is at timing belt replacement around 60K-75K miles. Honda recommends 105K. I would not wait that long.....

Toyotas with shim style valve trains recommend the same service interval. However, I have always found the valve lash to be in spec even after 300,000 miles (on my moms Camry) and 130,000 miles on both our old ES 300's. To be fair my anecdotal experience might differ from someone who flat foots all the time.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Unless advised other wise by your Honda service writer (or trusted 3rd party mechanic) due to presenting issues, following the recommended service interval of 105k miles for the timing belt and valve adjustment will be just fine.

Just as I have on our other Honda (CR-V).

I would not feel comfortable waiting over 75K max on an interference engine. I am my own trusted mechanic and have seen first hand what can happen to engines when stretching out the service interval to factory recommendations.

Of course YMMV. However, I'm not one to gamble destroying and dumping unnecessary money into an already depreciating asset I plan on keeping until the wheels fall off. For under 4000.00 in parts (AISIN kit, coolant and OEM tensioner) and less than 4 hours of my time, it's a no brainer.

These Honda engines are super simple to work on and anyone who can read and comprehend a service manual will have no trouble to do this job easily.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Where does one find a service manual for the PP? I have a factory Bentley manual for my BMW 330i, but have not been able to find a comparable one for the PP.

You can purchase the subscription for 24 hours and print up your own at Kinkos or Staples. Unless you are a tech working day in and day out (or have money to waste) it's much cheaper to print the manual. The initial cost is about 100.00 in (25.00 for the subscription and aprox 75.00 for 25lb paper printed and spiral bound. I did mine off my MacOS . I converted the pages I needed from the subscription to temporary PDF files. It was a tedious work around but successful. Not sure if WindowsOS allows it.

Also, what sort of special tools are required to do the belt and valve adjustment etc. on the PP?

Almost all basic hand tools to do a belt replacement and valve adjustment. To make life easier I recommend getting a 19mm deep harmonic balancer socket and a 50mm Crankshaft Crank Pulley Wrench Holder Tool. These 2 tools make it much easier to not only hold the crank pulley but remove the almost always stubborn harmonic balancer bolt. Use caution when removing harmonic bolt. Very easy to snap with an impact. I almost always have to add a little heat to these when removing. When reinstalling put a dab of NeverSeez on all the bolts including water pump. It will make it easier for the next service.

For valves just a set of quality feeler gauges. I use the long Starrett or Mitutoyo tapered leaves (I have both) as these are the most accurate.

Main point, and very important after belt replacement, is to spin the engine manually very slowly at least 2 full camshaft revolutions checking pulley/cam gear marks are lined up and valves are not hitting piston.

While you are in there I also recommend replacing tensioner. If you have a shop do the work insist on it. Hydraulic tensioners are big failure point on any engine. If your tensioner fails the belt will skip and motor can end up bricked.

I find it odd that a 2002 Ford Explorer can go 250k miles w/o a valve adjustment being necessary, but a modern Honda V6 can't. Does Honda use solid lifters? Thanks for your input.

Those older Ford Explorers are amazing vehicles than can go an easy 500,000 miles. I'm pretty sure the Ford Explorers with both 4.0 and 4.6 motors have non adjustable hydraulic valve trains. They are not adjustable. The 3.5 J35Y6 in our engines have a solid design valve train, single camshaft with shaft mounted rocker arms and screw adjusters. It is a very basic and simple design.

FWIW, all you need is torque specs and clearance for these 2 jobs. No need for service manual. Doing a timing belt and valve lash is as simple as it gets. You don't even have a power steering pump in your way. If you can do an oil change then this job is just as simple albeit time consuming. If you have never done it expect about 6 hours labor. A seasoned tech can knock it out in 2 - 3 hours. It takes me about 4 hours labor but all day in garage due to lots of breaks to my old body.

 

[ballisticexchris]

$4000 in parts???

OOPS!! Typo!! 400.00 in parts

 

[ballisticexchris]

Thank you for taking the time to send the helpful replies!

No sweat. And if you just don't want to do it yourself the cost is anywhere from 800.00 -1200.00 parts and labor. Shop labor is anywhere from 100.00 - 150.00 per hour. It's billed as a flat rate. Off the top of my head it's about 3hrs for TB R&R and 1.5hrs for VA. If they do both you can knock off about .5-1 hour.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Good for you for doing so much car-work at that age. I'd be happy to be alive at 50. Currently at mid-50s but lots of bad decisions bound to catch up to me sooner than later.

It happens to the best of us. I push my disabled body to the point of collapse and tears within about 20-30 minutes of any task that requires bending my joints. It really sucks sometimes when you have the brain and skills but your body won't cooperate.

One of my requirements when purchasing this vehicle was the ease of wrenching on it (when compared to others). When I was cross shopping with the Subaru Outback I realized as soon as I opened the hood that the Outback was a big pass.

 

[ballisticexchris]

It would not activate for me initially, I would keep getting the "unavailable" message. But later on in the day I drove my Passport again and it started working. Maybe it just needs to be driven a bit to reactivate itself after the update.

It's the charge state of the battery. If the vehicle sets for more than 24 hours unplugged from maintainer this is normal until the vehicles charging system can catch up.

I plug mine in every day and the start/stop works instantly when activated. On long road trips same deal without being plugged into charger.

The average owner likes to dig their heels in, bury their head in the sand and blame Honda when the solution is so simple. I have no doubt my battery will get a longer service life interval than someone who just parks the vehicle with no regard to taking care of a consumable part.

Tires, brakes, batteries, ball joints, tie rod ends and many other components need to be attended to regularly to extend the life of those components.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Honda provides NO recommendations that the average owner should use a battery maintainer whenever vehicle is parked, or left undriven for a week.

There are a lot of things that manufacturers fail to recommend that are paramount to a reliable vehicle. It is up to the owners to be active and use some common sense to determine what needs to be done for continued reliability and making consumables last.

A battery begins to discharge as soon as there is no longer a source of electricity going to it. Even if you are parking overnight, a battery maintainer will drastically extend the life of the battery by preventing degrading discharge cycles.

FWIW every single tech I know including myself recommends a battery maintainer as a way to extend battery life. It's no different than keeping your tire pressures up, ball joints lubed, etc to extend the usable life of all vehicle related consumables.

I provided a simple solution. If you and others fail to follow this recommendation then it's on the owner if the battery fails prematurely after the warranty runs out.

Honda parts/service does not sell battery maintainers, because they do not consider it to be required or recommended for average driver to use in order to operate their vehicle reliably.

All the local Honda dealerships in my area sell and recommend battery maintainers.

Norm Reeves Honda West Covina, Norm Reeves Cerritos and Buena Park Honda all have this Optimate front and center in the parts department when you walk in. I personally use the NOCO but the Optimate's are a fantastic choice as well. They provide a desulfation and extend the life of your battery efficiently as a Battery Tender or NOCO. If I remember right they are about 100 bucks or so.

reminded @ballisticexchris of this a few weeks ago, his response was akin to - 'Never mind what Honda said about using and maintaining it's cars, believe me instead.'

I felt there was a lot of messiah complex in that response.

Penzance and fx_chip, You are doing a disservice to our forum members here by spreading false and toxic comments along with negativity. I have discussed this with you before but you don't seem receptive to the idea of politeness and decorum. Backhanded name calling and feeble attempts to discredit me are childish and adolescent in nature. I would politely ask you to refrain from this please.

 

[ballisticexchris]

I'm all for politeness and decorum but that doesn't say I can't highlight your contradictory and overzealous claims

"I felt there was a lot of messiah complex in that response."

"Your doppelganger must have posted this earlier about all the equipment you log around."

There is a description for you are doing. It's called trolling. And it is direct violation of forum rules. But hey go ahead as it's the new normal for the toxic environment that seems to excite and thrill some of you. I feel bad for the moderators that have to put up with this nonsense.

I used to think that as well....now that I'm 75, 50 is a looooong time ago.

Right on and thank you for your service. I almost became a Bubblehead myself. My ASVAB score was well over 200. Unfortunately my teenage shenanigans prevented me from getting into the program. I ended up in the Sea Bees as a EO. I was lucky it was during the cold war. I have a lot of respect for my fellow shipmates on those vessels that stay under the surface for months at a time.

 

[ballisticexchris]

If that is normal for you vehicle after 24 hours, then you have a problem. I have let my 2020 Touring sit for over 15 days, no tender and it starts right up. SOC was down slightly but it was back to a full SOC with the drive I had to take.

Yes it is perfectly normal for the start/stop to self disable until the charging system catches up. If your vehicle sets 24 hours or 15 days you are going to experience this. The longer it sets the longer it will take for the charge system to catch up. A vehicle that's plugged in and has a full charge will rarely get the dash notification and the start/stop will work seamlessly.

I have 2 motorcycles and four 4 wheeled vehicles plugged in at all times when parked in my driveway and garage. Of course the ones that are driven throughout the day do not get plugged in until the evening. It takes less than 10 seconds to pop the hood and hook up.

I have no recommendations for a driver who has a problem with such an easy task. They will spend money and effort to install a device to disable the start/stop system when all it takes is a simple push of a button at startup. Yet will argue and complain about pushing a button or plugging in a pigtail. Makes zero sense.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Imagine going through the hassle of plugging in your ICE car every night in order to make the $100 battery "last longer."

The battery in the Passports are over 200.00.

 

[ballisticexchris]

I just rec'd. the Warranty Extension letter today - that's a good thing 👍. I don't see anything directing me to have the software updated so I assume that is done on a case by case basis depending on what the dealer finds when the vehicle's in the shop.
Will a 'sytem warming up or charging' message be enough to have them update, or will they need to see a bad battery before they perform the fix?
In other words, do I need to stop disabling the Idle Stop every time I get in the car in order to have the software update done?

I just got my letter today as well for the software update and extension. My update was done at last free service from dealer.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Curious to know if the people who keep their PPs on a battery maintainer do that with all vehicles they own

I do. Every single one. It has saved me thousands in premature battery replacements since I started doing it in the early 90's. The redox reaction in the battery cells occur as soon as the dynamic battery discharge voltage increases with the increasing of H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) concentration. In other words as soon as your vehicle is shut off the battery starts to sulphate and die.

I deal in science, hard data and facts when it comes to battery maintenance.

Unfortunately there are those with low IQ's and lack of common sense who have no understanding of how a battery works. You can show them the data and undisputed science and yet they will still twist it into a toxic adolescent argument.

We all have irrational attachment to our cars and do what we think is the right thing.

I don't. I only perform services and repairs of what I know is right. My conclusions come only by verifiable facts and data.

All my vehicles are a tool that serve a purpose of transportation. I have no emotional attachment to anything with a depreciating value or mechanical. I will readily admit that a byproduct of my transportation is enjoyment of driving or riding.

 

[ballisticexchris]

This is incorrect. Sulfation will occur when a battery is on a typical charger/minder.

I was making it as simple as possible for the good members of this forum such as yourself who do not have the knowledge of battery chemistry.

Of course a battery will sulphate when on a charger. This is why you get a maintainer that has a desulphation mode such as a Battery Tender or NOCO charger.

The detrimental effects of a battery being off a charger and having permanent non reversible sulfating occur is greater than when it's on a maintainer. FWIW almost all maintenance chargers will prevent battery cells from sulfating.

BTW nice try at your copy and paste of something you googled. You might want to stop right there unless you actually know what you are posting. You obviously have no clue as to battery chemistry. This is a disservice to the members here who want to learn something.

In my younger career I had many years of experience in the temporary power industry and learned from the very best. I have practical as well as heavy technical background with generators/batteries and other forms of temporary and permanent power. I apply everything I learned to present day. My 40+ year old slide rule still gets pulled out on occasion to make equations and keep my mind sharp (as it did in grade school science).

 

[ballisticexchris]

Simple might have been using the right terms for the actions you are trying to describe. In other words as soon as your vehicle is shut off the battery starts to sulphate and die, however this is not the redox reaction.

This discussion and your definition of proper terminology as it is used in electron transfers during a batteries depletion of power is obviously over your head and you have no clue to battery chemistry and how it works. Try to twist it any way you like. I recommend you get some proper education on the subject before making foolish comments and feeble attempts to discredit members.