I've joined to start sharing my findings and opinions after two months of ownership. I've got some details about the vehicle that I don't think are common knowledge and may be interesting.
First up is Active Noise Cancellation. ANC is a frustrating technology that some manufacturers use to avoid making their vehicles more quiet by adding mass loading dampening material to metal and using better materials. While I will say that Honda has come a long way with cabin noise and the cabin rides quiet at low speeds, there is still plenty of evidence of cheap materials and poor design choices that I have found as I removed door panels, unplugged the ANC module, etc. At high speeds like 75 on highway it is obvious they could do better. They could do worse too, so there is that.
Now, what does ANC do? It tries to put sound waves in the audio system to counter noise of various types, mostly low frequency due to the ridiculous VCM technology that Honda will not abandon, and maybe some mid frequency cabin noise is slightly reduced. VCM is an engine "feature" that shuts off 3 of 6 cylinders when not accelerating and saves a very miniscule amount of gas. Prior versions of it caused oil use and engine wear and it is claimed to be better now- overall it is a useless technology that is not worth the imperceptible fuel savings for the noise, response loss/hesitation, and maintenance issues it presents. It is noisy at mostly low frequency, and so ANC cancels that drone out fairly well using your speakers and factory subwoofer. Neither of these technologies is optional, but with some work you can disable both ANC and VCM without doing anything irreversible. I have no idea what the dealer says about warranty but they do have to prove your changes cause an issue if you had one.
Perhaps the most interesting things about ANC are:
1) if you want to add aftermarket stereo equipment there will be loud feedback in the factory equipment as the ANC mics think your new equipment is making cabin noise. A simple software option to disable ANC would alleviate this, but no Honda could never be that smart (they have the setting but it doesn't work or stay in memory), so you have to phsyically disable the two ANC mics in the ceiling being careful to leave the hands free/phone call mic alone, or you must unplug ANC module behind the glove box. A really sophisticated installer might tap the harness and install a relay switch but that is extreme and expensive modification.
2) Honda is putting FAKE EXHAUST SOUNDS into cabin via the speakers. Yes that is correct. I am about 95% sure of it. I plugged/unplugged ANC and did nearly a dozen controlled speed test drives up and down the same road at night with no traffic for repeatability and there is a distinct undertone or closeness of the exhaust sound in the cabin when ANC module is on. It makes the exhaust sound a bit better tonally but louder in cabin, and overall sounds slightly 'tougher' by boosting the lower tones slightly.
3) ANC muddies your stereo a bit. With it disabled it gets more power and is slightly more crisp because there are not sound waves of opposing frequencies- all power from the audio amp is for your music. The amount of cabin noise it reduces in this car seems to be very small, and I have added sound deadening to the doors and floors in places, so the little bit of additional cabin noise is offset by that and the reduced exhaust sound.
Timely...I spent some downtime yesterday looking into this. I have a nice low profile powered sub that I used in a 4runner. Was thinking of putting it in the PP. But this ANC system...gives me pause.
I installed a VCM defeat device. So maybe I can live without the ANC?
Any tips on how to access that module behind the dash? I've seen online that some folks have just deadened the two pickup mics.
I didn't notice much more noise without ANC and my VCM is still active. The fake exhaust sound goes away, which I like. Note that I also have sound deadening material in a few places but still, I don't think ANC is doing as much for this car as say a 2012 Accord or something.
I'll tell you how to unplug ANC below but ...warning... I don't use hands free calls or voice much and on some older Hondas, pulling ANC reportedly affected those. I tested both several times and they appear to work fine though. Do your own tests. Worst case you would have to spend the 20 mins to remove the glove box and plug it back in.
Disabling the mics is the slow way and bad if you don't like modifying the car. It involves cutting a wire or pushing a pin out of the harness above the front dome lights, and muffling or unplugging the rear mic on the headliner over the cargo area. Muffling the front mic doesn't seem that possible since it is twin next to the hands free / bluetooth mic and hard to get something in there with enough mass to deaden it and not damage it (its the two holes under the plastic grill behind the sunglass holder and in front of the the driver/left dome light). Maybe if you disassemble the entire dome light assembly and put sound deadening right into it it may work but I could never tell which mic was ANC and which was handsfree/voice even after looking at the circuit board. To muffle the rear might work, but to disconnect that one, you must drop the rear headliner some. Messing with all this takes a while and for many reasons isn't the good way to go. Keep in mind that disabling mics vs. a full disconnect, the ANC is still on with no feed signal, so it will still pump fake exhaust sounds into the cabin and also might take a little power from your stereo.
The fast way to get rid of all ANC is to unplug the module, takes about 20 minutes. Remove the glove box housing and locate the small square module on the top left corner of the cavity left when you pulled the box. I didn't take pics but found this youtube video that shows a 2016 Ridgeline and the ANC module.
The procedure and module are very much similar to that video, almost the identical dash as ours in it, but you have to pull the trim panel above the glove box which he glosses over, and the it seems the location of the module is similar but slightly further recessed. Just look for the square module on the left that looks like the one in the video. If you unmount it to see the part number, it is 39200-TGS-A11 and may be followed by a couple more numbers and letters. All you have to do is push the release tab and pull the connector. Easiest to press the tab with one hand and hook a thumbnail on the bottom ridge on the connector.
Good luck if you do it, again test everything yourself. Also I have no idea what the dealer would say, but the mod should not in theory affect warranty same as the VCM defeat.
Last note, I've heard pro installers with the full wiring diagram (oh I wish I had that) can sometimes put a relay switch so that ANC is either switchable or comes on when the aftermarket subwoofer is off. I'd like to go all out and do that, but unplug works for now.
Just adding to this thread as I learn about either ANC and audio. Our speakers in the doors are 20W 2 ohms if the label is believed. This is a pain for replacement as almost no one has quality 2 ohm speakers. Many make 3 ohm though, and if they are more sensitive and better, they should work well. Most amplifiers have a range of 2 to 4 ohms compatibility but I have not found the spec. of the factory amp yet. I will be adding 3 ohm coax in all doors at some point, a fairly cheap mod for good speakers at only about 150 for all 4. I will report back results.
Just purchased a Passport Touring late September. So far very impressed with my new Passport - other than the sound system. I was aware that Honda speakers were very low end even in the upgraded audio system in the Touring model. However, I hoped I would be able to tolerate the lousy sound reproduction from these crappy speakers but they are extremely disappointing. At 540 watts, power seems adequate but there are issues to changing out the speakers. As mentioned by storm303, the Passport's Panasonic speakers are 2 ohm. I was hoping to just replace the front door speakers (mid/woofer & tweeter). However, high quality replacement upgrade speakers are typically 4 ohm so you would have to replace ALL speakers to avoid mismatching impedence that would result in lower power/volume issues. Further, if the (2) amplifiers total 540w rating is at 2 ohm then converting to 4 ohm speakers would reduce the system to a paltry 270w driving 10 speakers. I have just made a request from my local Honda dealer for detailed information on my Touring model's amplifiers & speakers specifications so I can try to figure out how to economically improve the sound of my audio system without breaking the bank. I realize that no one at the dealership is likely to have this type of in-depth information so I am hoping that Honda North America will ultimately be able to help.
It is ridiculous that Honda continues to not make a truly "high end" audio system available as so many other car manufacturers do so. I guess Honda is trying to push car audiophiles to Acura which has the incredible ELS (Elliot Shiner) audio sound systems in the vehicles.
Minimal difference as far as I can tell. I spend an hour on the highway every day and I don't see any major difference. Honestly the only way it would matter is if you drive in complete silence but who does that?
I just took out the ANC module. As said, it's 10 minutes. Re-tuned the stereo...turn down the bass, turn up the sub. Turn down center speaker; balance a little to the rear.
Holy sh*t! It's like a completely different stereo!
I'm doing door speakers and door sound proofing next. Should make it even better.
It makes the factory sub almost enough, I did much the same tuning. I can also report, my 3 ohm speaker upgrade went very well, almost no volume drop (maybe one or two ticks on the volume, but way clearer and punchier throughout the range.
For anyone doing the sound deadening, if it is your first sound deadening project expect incremental improvement from each area you treat. Noise may appear to have shifted around, and as you treat more areas, the overall volume and character improves. Speakers clarity really benefit from the full door treatment. I suggest Dynamat or SecondSkinAudio product for the vibration damper. Most of the other brands use asphalt or other chemicals in their tiles and they stink in heat and fall off. You get what you pay for. SecondSkin is the best one I have ever tried and the also have some of the best decoupling foams for reasonable prices.
The MLV barrier needs to be 'virgin' material meaning not reprocessed to be odor free. I got mine on Amazon from Trademark Soundproofing but Dynamat and Second skin also make that stuff.
Well, I finished my stock upgrade tonight. Infiniti Reference 6532 / 6522 EX in all four doors and a Pioneer TS-SW2002D2 8" Subwoofer in the stock box. Also all my sound deadening as discussed previously.
Results: Sound deadening and the front door upgrade were a really good upgrade. Not so sure about the rear doors and sub replacement.
The front door speakers can be changed out with 6522EX for about 60 bucks including install supplies and they made a big difference in clarity and sound stage with a minima loss in the muddy bass from the stock fronts - a no brainer.
The rear door replacement with the same speakers may not be as good idea as I thought. While they are way clearer, the loss of midbass on four speakers begins to be more noticeable and the sub must fill it all in. The tweeters in this model speaker are also bright enough to really help the front, but in the rear door they pull the sound stage a bit back since they are right behind your seat position. The stocks were not as clear, but tamer and a bit more bass heavy, if sloppy bass.
The subwoofer replacement is mixed. This sub is amazing for some material, really tight and crisp on high frequency bass at 120Hz, but not as good as the factory sub at 60Hz (the low thuds and rumbles). I hate to say it but while not the top of line, the factory system is well balanced and uses not bad speakers.
I might leave the rear doors, but I will probably put the factory sub back in and just install my aftermarket 12" sub box and amp, I was just hoping for a little bit more than stock and I could have gone without. So close. The replacement sub could not cut it and there are few enough dual 2ohm voice coil subs that I probably won't try the stock replacement again.
If anyone else upgrades, I suggest the front doors first, then carefully consider if you need to do more. For this car, I think replacing the fronts and some sound treatment are the best balance without a full aftermarket install.
Sorry to hear that your upgrade didn't have the results you had hoped for, are you sure the factory amplifier can handle that upgrade. I think the RMS power needed for those 5 speakers you added is 370W total which leaves you only 170W on the factory amplifier for the other 5 speakers. Assuming that the 540W listed on the factory amplifier is RMS. Also assuming that much wattage is actually reaching the new speakers. I don't know what speakers are prioritized on the factory amplifier.
Good question...I'm sure more power would help the sub, but not thinking this is a power issue for the other channels. The door speakers are high sensitivity and stated to run fine from 5-55W RMS. They all individually sound loud enough, clear and well controlled and sufficiently powered at low to medium volumes. The amp isn't pushing itself and I don't have to turn up the volume to drive them. When I had only upgraded the fronts there was a massive improvement over stock. The rears added even more clarity to the rear fill, but too much highs at a strange angle.
The sub is probably underpowered but is not distorting or sloppy. It seems to be a high frequency resonant sub and I'm not too impressed with it in this box; even though it is only an 8" the stock sub was deeper and more balanced without being boomy in the midbass. This Pioneer seems to sing at 120Hz up to 180Hz, but worse than stock down to 60Hz. That could be power, but I think it is just the design and cone resonance, or a mismatch of its preferred enclosure to the stock box.
A lot of people would probably think it sounds great lol! I'm picky even with hearing loss. Easy to fix though with covering rear dooor tweeters and adding my 12" sub and amp, I just didn't want to drag that thing around.
Man I wish I had ears enough to be able to make those kinds of distinctions. For me the stock EX-L stereo sounds great and it's hard to imagine it being able to sound better.
You don't necessarily have to drag that sub box around and sacrifice space in the main cargo area. There is plenty of room for a custom built box to hold a 12" sub under the floor. I thought about building one to transfer my dual 12's into but I am still recovering from the car accident that totaled my 2018 Accord EX-L . I may do it later when my back isn't killing me all the time.
Thanks for the update Storm, based on your experience, I've reconsidered my path forward. I'm going to move slowly and in stages.
First, I'm just going to replace the Front Door speakers only and may very well end up with the same Infinity's that you bought. But I am also considering the Infinity 621X (2.7 ohm) and the JBL GTO 620 (2.5 ohm) speakers, both of these are a bit more money, and slighly better specs, but I still need to determine if they will fit (depth-wise). I also found a 2 ohm Focal PC165x2, but at $349/pair, I may pass on it.
When I replace the Front Door Speakers, I will do the sound deadening in both of the front doors.
Then I'll disconnect the ANC.
And then listen to that system for a while to determine what to do next.
Thanks for the update Storm, based on your experience, I've reconsidered my path forward. I'm going to move slowly and in stages.
First, I'm just going to replace the Front Door speakers only and may very well end up with the same Infinity's that you bought. But I am also considering the Infinity 621X (2.7 ohm) and the JBL GTO 620 (2.5 ohm) speakers, both of these are a bit more money, and slighly better specs, but I still need to determine if they will fit (depth-wise). I also found a 2 ohm Focal PC165x2, but at $349/pair, I may pass on it.
When I replace the Front Door Speakers, I will do the sound deadening in both of the front doors.
Then I'll disconnect the ANC.
And then listen to that system for a while to determine what to do next.
Not a bad plan. After all is done, I have settled for now with factory sub, and an infinity 6532/22EX in all four doors. These are quite nice for the price. The older model 6522 can be had for about 115 bucks for all four plus mounting adapters on Amazon. Crutchfield costs more but they are great about finding all the mounting extras and install instructions for you.
My next step will be either to try a new sub in factory spot, or add an aftermarket.
I have noted the factory amp has strange gain settings and the rear door speakers are lower than they should be. Only way to fix would be a new amp, but I think if I get more sub bass I can live with it.
To me the perfect car stereo within reasonable effort and cost is clear mids and highs that are wrapped in good sub bass with a hint of midbass punch. All at low to moderate volumes.
djmoose I'm glad the video helped. Too bad I didn't think to see how the bulb was mounted. Thanks for the tip. I'm sure anyone else seeing this thread will be happy to use that tip. The flashlight must have been special I had to take it apart twice too since I forgot to show the removal of the tension cord in the first edit.
I read on a Pilot or Accord website that the ANC could be disabled in the "Secret Menu", has anyone looked to see if it can be done this way on the Passport?
i recently purchased a 2021 Passport EXL and am exploring options to upgrade the lower end stock sound system. The local car audio shops don't know much about the passport system. i will not install on my own.
I would like to upgrade the front and rear speakers and add an amp. Can i do that without going to a 5 channel amp (to include the subwoofer) or can i use a 4 channel amp and just allow the stock amp to power the subwoofer? based on what i've read here, the stock subwoofer should be fine and i think it sounds ok.
i recently purchased a 2021 Passport EXL and am exploring options to upgrade the lower end stock sound system. The local car audio shops don't know much about the passport system. i will not install on my own.
I would like to upgrade the front and rear speakers and add an amp. Can i do that without going to a 5 channel amp (to include the subwoofer) or can i use a 4 channel amp and just allow the stock amp to power the subwoofer? based on what i've read here, the stock subwoofer should be fine and i think it sounds ok.
Not sure about a diagram, have not seen one, but I would be shocked if Crutchfield or someone did not have this by now after 3 model years. You an add another amp easy enough by running remote, power, ground wires to the new amp location and speaker wires back to the speakers (or tap out to the factory speaker harness but not sure parts are made for that). The amp and sub for EXL may be different from my Touring (not sure really) but Touring has the amplifier placed over the passenger rear wheel hub behind the plastic trim panel.
I would use a shop who is confident they can figure this out without trouble. Even without a diagram none of this is very complicated for experienced installers. I was able to use a meter to trace the sub wiring to the amp when I was tapping my extra sub into the stock speaker wires and made my own diagram of the sub wiring. I did not make any for other speakers and not sure the EXL is the same, so my drawing would not have been useful to you. All an installer needs to do is find the existing speaker, and do a continuity check with a meter back to the amp to make their own drawing. If a new amp and speaker wire is installed, you can ignore all the factory wiring except tapping into either line or high level for the new amplifier input signal.
You can add an amp to drive all your (new) speakers and leave the Sub and the Center channel connected to the OEM Amp, however on models other than the Elite & Touring, it may not sound real good as they have something like a 200w system vs the 540w system.
I use the upper amp (listed below) you can read on the site how it can tap into the high level speaker outputs and somehow de-equalize the signal and restore a full frequency range. The lower amp does it too but has much less power than the upper one - BUT still better than the sock Honda amps.
Audison Prima AP F8.9 bit is ideal for the most demanding integration projects, where high power is required along with the flexibility of the nine-channel DSP.
You can add an amp to drive all your (new) speakers and leave the Sub and the Center channel connected to the OEM Amp, however on models other than the Elite & Touring, it may not sound real good as they have something like a 200w system vs the 540w system.
I use the upper amp (listed below) you can read on the site how it can tap into the high level speaker outputs and somehow de-equalize the signal and restore a full frequency range. The lower amp does it too but has much less power than the upper one - BUT still better than the sock Honda amps.
Audison Prima AP F8.9 bit is ideal for the most demanding integration projects, where high power is required along with the flexibility of the nine-channel DSP.
Hey Storm, if I read this thread correctly you have coax speakers in both front and rear doors. Question, did you leave the stock tweeters in the a pillars hooked up to the system? I'm thinking of getting the Infinity Reference REF-6532 ex from Crutchfield which are also coaxial. Really don't want to get involved with the crossovers, capacitors / blockers and alike. Just want to do a simple speaker upgrade and leave the rest stock (sub and amp). I plan on doing some noise cancellation in the doors later this spring when things warm up some.
I also have hearing loss and tinnitus for 21 years 24/7 and with 3 different tones. That's what I get for 30 plus years of working in machine shops and teaching hunter education! LOL, now I do the CNC programming in an office for those machines in the shop.
Thanks, Chris
Yes, I have Infinity coax in all four door locations, and an added 8" powered Rockford ported sub that taps the factory sub signal, with all non door stock speakers still installed and working. It sounds decent enough to me, not incredible but a good upgrade in clarity to the stock door speakers. The doors were simple upgrades, just need a panel puller, screwdriver, and some plastic adapters for the speakers to screw onto.
Mine is a very tame upgrade compared to the huge systems of my youth with active crossovers, 1/3 octave EQs, component speakers, large subwoofers with custom boxes, dedicated amps per channel, etc.
My own hearing loss and tinnitus appreciates the noise control I did, making the audio clearer at lower volumes and also less fatigue from road noise. The sound deadening using a small amount of butyl dampener for metal panel resonance, mass loaded vinyl for blocking noise in doors and most of the floor, and melamine foam for cavities like the roof and pillars made a large difference in how quiet the cabin is and the system sounds.
Just placed my order with Crutchfield for the Infinity 6532-ex for the doors. NIce that they include the adapter rings, wire harness, and vehicle specific instructions. Will definatly be disconnecting the ANC also. And once we get into warmer weather will be looking to do some sound deadening.
Changed out the OEM speakers for the Infinity 6532-ex in all four doors, added sound deadening to the outer door panels and disconnected the ANC. Granted this is a very modest upgrade to the stereo system compared to most. But, I'm really satisfied with the results. Speakers have much more clarification to them compared to the stock ones. Plus I was amazed at how much the ANC down graded the stock system (went for a test ride after disconnecting and still had stock speakers).
Glad to hear you like the Infinity 6532-ex. I have a pair of them that I'm about to get installed in the rear doors. Had them in a 2016 hrv and enjoyed them. Infinity Kappa 603CF will be going in the front with a small amp, Infinity Kappa 303s (only 1, but they come in a pair) for the center dash and a powered sub in the rear.
So I just with through the menu setting trick and disabled the anc. The stereo does sound better(factory). I also went on a test drive in sport mode and the fake engine/exhaust noise is gone. Now, before I go to the next step of unplugging the anc does anyone that have done this notice any increase of cabin noise from road or wind?
I'm only wanting to do this is to remove the fake engine/exhaust when I step hard on the accelerator.
Some say you will get an increase of wind and road noise if you disconnect the anc but my road test was very short so not really sure. Thanks for any feedback.
So I just with through the menu setting trick and disabled the anc. The stereo does sound better(factory). I also went on a test drive in sport mode and the fake engine/exhaust noise is gone. Now, before I go to the next step of unplugging the anc does anyone that have done this notice any increase of cabin noise from road or wind?
I'm only wanting to do this is to remove the fake engine/exhaust when I step hard on the accelerator.
Some say you will get an increase of wind and road noise if you disconnect the anc but my road test was very short so not really sure. Thanks for any feedback.
Was out running errands today and I can say that I have not noticed any increased cabin noise from any exterior source. Nice not to hear the fake exhaust being piped in. Any engine noise now heard is truly from the V6 (like when you stomp on it).
OK, I finally got around to disconnecting the anc. One thing I noticed from the video of how to get to this little rascal was my sport trim does not have the wire connected at the bottom of the glove box. Guess this was one more dime honda saved on the elcheapo sport trim lol. Anyway, will give it a test drive in a few to see if there are any differences.
Holy cow am I glad I disconnected the ANC! 100% better without the fake engine/exhaust piping through the speakers! So much quitier when doing a hard acceleration!
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