[Cloudbaseracer]

First time posting here on the PPForum. Brand new '21 Elite.

I noticed that a 4Runner TRD Pro Off Road has 9.6" of clearance so I thought that would be a good goal to shoot for. Of course, it has more articulation. I have watched JonDZ videos, read a lot but it is not exactly clear if I can run bigger tires by only cutting wheel well and without going for a lift?
My only reason to avoid the lift is that I think it will affect the handling too much and I will mainly be on road. I do go off road but not looking for extreme like Jon does.
My reason for the 17" over 18" is possibly slightly better road comfort as well. Of course I could be wrong about this and keen to hear thoughts.
I don't really like the look of the Traxda axel relocation and it seems like it would affect handling also.

I guess truthfully, anything over 9" would make a nice difference. I chose the Passport over the 4Runner for the ride quality, quiet interior and modern design. Even decided against a new GX460 because it was just lacked updates.

Thoughts on gaining 1.5"?

Cheers,
James

 

[Davesxx01]

Sadly, you will not gain 1.5” clearance without the use of axle relocation and lift spacers.

 

[REALM]

You can run up to 265/60/18s stock, but depending on wheel combo you may get slight rubbing at full lock when you’re turned all the way right or left. If you cut the wheel wells, you’ll get zero rub as you saw per JonDZ.

Conti Terrain Contacts on Honda Ridgeline or Pilot 18” rims with 55 offset seem to be the most consistent that users report no rubbing, without wheel well cutting.

Ground clearance wise, remember whatever tire diameter you change to, your actual ground clearance will only be half the difference because half of your taller tire is above the wheel, and half below it. So say you go from stock 29.6 diameter to a 30.5” 265/60/18. That’s a difference of .9, so your actual ground clearance growth would be .45”, making it now 8.55.

Therefore realistically you’re going to need a 32.6 tire to get to 9.6” of lift, and I’m not sure that’s possible or not with just wheel cutting. JonDZ is running that size I believe, but in conjunction with a lift.

Your best bet is probably 30.5” tires, some wheel cutting, and a 1-1.5” lift.

I’m around 9.8” of ground clearance, with 255/60/18 tires that gave me about .2” of lift, plus a 1.5” lift, and no wheel well cutting. It indeed rides a little stiffer than stock though, but not awful. I’ve had a lifted Toyota Tacoma, Jeep Cherokee, and a couple Dodge Rams. Those lifted suffered a lot in ride comfort. The PP however just slightly.

 

[kslu_wa]

Sadly, you will not gain 1.5” clearance without the use of axle relocation and lift spacers.

I am running 2 F/2 R lift from Traxda and 30.5 tires 245/70R17 Cooper Discoverer AT3 4 S on my 2019 Pilot. No rub going forward at full lock and some very light rub backing up at full lock. No cutting and no axle relocation. I gained 2.5 inch lift.

FYI, no measurable impact to handling. My wheels have 38 offset vs 55 stock, so they give slightly more stability and it offsets the lift impact. The still car handles really well and I can still take corners at high speed.

 

[Passporter]

Just curious, does lifting the passport throw off the safety stuff? Coming from Toyota it was hit or miss- many had zero issues, some the rig went crazy!

 

[kslu_wa]

Just curious, does lifting the passport throw off the safety stuff? Coming from Toyota it was hit or miss- many had zero issues, some the rig went crazy!

I didn't get any error messages. All the Honda Sensing stuff works. Is it impacted because the car sits 2.5 inches higher? You bet. Did I notice it? Not really. Whenever you modify the car, you Are changing stock settings. You either accept the risk that comes with it or you don't modify.

 

[Cloudbaseracer]

I am running 2 F/2 R lift from Traxda and 30.5 tires 245/70R17 Cooper Discoverer AT3 4 S on my 2019 Pilot. No rub going forward at full lock and some very light rub backing up at full lock. No cutting and no axle relocation. I gained 2.5 inch lift.

FYI, no measurable impact to handling. My wheels have 38 offset vs 55 stock, so they give slightly more stability and it offsets the lift impact. The still car handles really well and I can still take corners at high speed. View attachment 11054

Your ride looks great. Can you please tell me what wheels you went with?

What made you decide on 17" vs 18"?

If you had to do it again would you still go Traxda 2" F/R?

Thanks!!

 

[kslu_wa]

Your ride looks great. Can you please tell me what wheels you went with?

What made you decide on 17" vs 18"?

If you had to do it again would you still go Traxda 2" F/R?

Thanks!!

Thank you.

My wheels are KMC BULLY KM708. I went with 17 inch because there are more options for AT tires and because I wanted max tire wall. Also, 17 inch wheels are lighter.

My mechanic did the install and alignment, so I really don't have any comments on that. Traxda was very responsive via email and I spoke with Gregg (the owner) about possible issues with Honda Sensing. Per Greg, there should be no issues while replacing a windshield (time will tell). I only use cruise control fr Honda Sensing suit and I have not notice any issues so far.

If I had to do it again, I would chose 3.5 inch lift kit. I have found a good mechanic and I saw the lift kit at a discount, so the cost would not be as much as when it first came out. To be honest, 2 inch lift just got me more excited about what my car can actually do offroad and I regret a little bit I didn't go all the way to 3.5 mostly because of the costs (4x for the lift kit and I assume at least double if not triple in installation).

Don't get me wrong, 2 inch lift is very noticable to naked eye and when you get into the car. Also, ground clearance improved dramatically. I was driving over 10 inches of snow we had in the neighborhood without dragging my belly. I Did some offroading in the snow and I can't wait to do some offroading when I get back home from my trip. No regrets getting a lift so far.

 

[Cloudbaseracer]

Thank you.

My wheels are KMC BULLY KM708. I went with 17 inch because there are more options for AT tires and because I wanted max tire wall. Also, 17 inch wheels are lighter.

My mechanic did the install and alignment, so I really don't have any comments on that. Traxda was very responsive via email and I spoke with Gregg (the owner) about possible issues with Honda Sensing. Per Greg, there should be no issues while replacing a windshield (time will tell). I only use cruise control fr Honda Sensing suit and I have not notice any issues so far.

If I had to do it again, I would chose 3.5 inch lift kit. I have found a good mechanic and I saw the lift kit at a discount, so the cost would not be as much as when it first came out. To be honest, 2 inch lift just got me more excited about what my car can actually do offroad and I regret a little bit I didn't go all the way to 3.5 mostly because of the costs (4x for the lift kit and I assume at least double if not triple in installation).

Don't get me wrong, 2 inch lift is very noticable to naked eye and when you get into the car. Also, ground clearance improved dramatically. I was driving over 10 inches of snow we had in the neighborhood without dragging my belly. I Did some offroading in the snow and I can't wait to do some offroading when I get back home from my trip. No regrets getting a lift so far.

10" sounds pretty good to me!

What are you doing about your now larger spare tire?

 

[kslu_wa]

For now, I plan to use the full-size stock wheel and tire as a spare and it fits under the rear hatch in my Pilot (Passports have it inside so it's more of an issue). I will simply replace the donut with a full-size tire, it's just under 1 inch in size difference. If I see that I spend a considerable time offroading, I will have to purchase a matching wheel and a tire so I have a proper full-size spare.

30.5 spare won't fit under, so it will most likely have to go inside (I don't do camping and there's lots of room in the back with the four of us). Honestly, I am not ready to drop 1200 on a swing out tire hatch since I don't have a use case for it. Time will tell.

 

[HarveyW]

For now, I plan to use the full-size stock wheel and tire as a spare and it fits under the rear hatch in my Pilot (Passports have it inside so it's more of an issue). I will simply replace the donut with a full-size tire, it's just under 1 inch in size difference. If I see that I spend a considerable time offroading, I will have to purchase a matching wheel and a tire so I have a proper full-size spare.

30.5 spare won't fit under, so it will most likely have to go inside (I don't do camping and there's lots of room in the back with the four of us). Honestly, I am not ready to drop 1200 on a swing out tire hatch since I don't have a use case for it. Time will tell.

Just a thought here. Even if you don't do much off roading your spare needs to match your 4 on road tires. Anything over 1/4" difference can cause sever damage to the transfer case. This is one of those situation in life where size does matter.

 

[kslu_wa]

Just a thought here. Even if you don't do much off roading your spare needs to match your 4 on road tires. Anything over 1/4" difference can cause sever damage to the transfer case. This is one of those situation in life where size does matter.

I question this statement. I think donut is more than an inch smaller than stock wheel. It should not be different for my +1 tires and a stock wheel for a spare. It's 0.9 of an inch difference.

So spare size is T165/80 D17 104M which is 27.6 vs stock 29.5. so almost 2 inch difference. So my stock 29.5 full-size is a safe plan for a spare for my 30.5 AT tires.

I am open to thoughts and ideas.

 

[HarveyW]

Try driving on that donut. At any speed much above 20-25 and you will get an over heating warning. It's different for a 2WD than an AWD or 4WD. Honda also tells you to get a full size tire back on the vehicle as soon as possible.

Yes, Honda says to keep the vehicle under 50mph on the spare. From experience I/we know what happens with the smaller size donut. After the second stop to let the transaxle cool down we said screw it, and had Honda Care send us a wrecker to get it to the dealer.

Because of this little experience I bought a full size spare for the Pilot and hung it underneath. Of course I never needed it after I got it, but at least I was prepared. Just as I am now with my 2020 Passport.

Some systems, like our 2013 Pilot and the wife 2016 Nissan Rogue will tell you when you are overheating the system. Some don't, but with an AWD or 4WD system the wheels are all designed to work together which means they need to be the same size. I believe that Subaru did have at least some vehicles that you could disable the AWD capabilities in such circumstances. No such thing with the Honda's that I am aware of.

A good read.

 

[kslu_wa]

Try driving on that donut. At any speed much above 20-25 and you will get an over heating warning. It's different for a 2WD than an AWD or 4WD. Honda also tells you to get a full size tire back on the vehicle as soon as possible.

Yes, Honda says to keep the vehicle under 50mph on the spare. From experience I/we know what happens with the smaller size donut. After the second stop to let the transaxle cool down we said screw it, and had Honda Care send us a wrecker to get it to the dealer.

Because of this little experience I bought a full size spare for the Pilot and hung it underneath. Of course I never needed it after I got it, but at least I was prepared. Just as I am now with my 2020 Passport.

Some systems, like our 2013 Pilot and the wife 2016 Nissan Rogue will tell you when you are overheating the system. Some don't, but with an AWD or 4WD system the wheels are all designed to work together which means they need to be the same size. I believe that Subaru did have at least some vehicles that you could disable the AWD capabilities in such circumstances. No such thing with the Honda's that I am aware of.

A good read.

It's hard to argue with logic in the article, that said, it is an article written by a company that sells tires Of course they want you to buy all 4 new tires, it is good for business! At the minimum, I will follow the recommendations in the owner's manual, which says donut tire is ok in emergency.

I wish I could send your post to the bright men and women at Honda who decided to put a donut for a spare into Pilot (hands down the cheapest and stupidest decision ever). But alas, engineers made an allowance for using a donut for up to 50 mph for a short distance. Something tells me they thought the risk was acceptable. Also, Honda allows replacing tires in pairs so you are not really forced to buy all 4 new tires. Also, Honda Pilot has an overdrive feature in the AWD, so by design the system can handle different tire rotations. Finally, having a different size tire offroad is likely to be somewhat offset but the loose surface as tires will slip easier to offset the size difference. So really, the issue of tire size only becomes prominent on hard surfaces, such as highways.

I am not going to lose my sleep over 0.9 inch size difference for a spare unless I plan on riding over long distances off-road by myself (single vehicle) in a very remote area (like a several hundred mile overlanding route, where a full-size spare is a matter of life or death). So, as you can see I am willing to accept the risk and it is well within the design specifications.

 

[Cloudbaseracer]

This is a good discussion and plays into a new thought I had today. I have never heard this talked about and maybe it is crazy. But......

Would it be possible to use a beefy snow chain as a way to add much needed traction AND additional diameter to close the difference of size? I really do not see how a sophisticated AWD system that can vary wheel speed so quickly is going to get tripped up by an inch or so tire difference. I mean, how does it do when driving on miles of icy terrain?

 

[kslu_wa]

This is a good discussion and plays into a new thought I had today. I have never heard this talked about and maybe it is crazy. But......

Would it be possible to use a beefy snow chain as a way to add much needed traction AND additional diameter to close the difference of size? I really do not see how a sophisticated AWD system that can vary wheel speed so quickly is going to get tripped up by an inch or so tire difference. I mean, how does it do when driving on miles of icy terrain?

I won't comment on using chain as a way to make on tire bigger in size. This might only work in winter and in snow.

Honda's AWD is amazing on ice and snow. If you use winter tires, you won't need chain.

 

[Cloudbaseracer]

I was talking about using the chains to make the small factory donut larger for just a short drive to get out of a backcountry offroad situation where traction would be essential.

We all know the donut is puny but is since it is what is included as stock then it must be ok for short distances?

The problem is that there is no feasible way to carry a larger tire unless we modify the current cargo area or store on top or back of the Passport. This is just not something I am keen to do so I am looking for options for just a very short trip until back to a proper road that can be accessed by service vehicles or AAA if needed.

Therefore, my idea to have temporary traction and effectively larger tire with just the chain on the donut.